Growth and Change in the Listener

[Reid]

We talk about growth we hear in musicians, but what about the growth that listeners go through. Here's a thread to share some of the changes and growth you have experienced as a listener. How has your tastes changed or matured over time? Are these things the same or different for you?

I've been listening to jazz for a little over ten years now, and one of the biggest changes I've noticed is that I'm much less "rule oriented" when it comes to my listening. By "rule oriented" I mean that I would often have a list of criteria I would mentally check off when I listened to music. Did the music swing? Was there a lot of interaction between the musicians? Is the music mainly acoustic?

In general I preferred these elements in music, but I think I might have emphasized the importance of these qualities to such an extent that hindered my ability to enjoy the music. I don't think I find myself listening to music looking so much for those criteria, although I still enjoy music with those elements. I guess, you could say they're not necessary for me to enjoy or appreciate the music. I consider that a good thing.

(Actually, if I may generalize, I think that's true of many of us here at jc. You almost never hear us judging music by the criteria above. It's almost irrelevent. Again, I think that's a good thing.)

[crawjo]

I think the main change I have experienced in recent years is that I no longer try to justify what I'm listening to on an intellectual basis, though much of the music I listen to does appeal to me intellectually. I don't need to explain my tastes. If I'm listening to Cecil Taylor and somebody asks me "Why do you like that stuff?" I say, "Because it is beautiful" and leave it at that. Basically, my barriers have been let down, and I just allow the music to flow through me, and move me, if it will. At least, that's the way I try to approach music now. If I find that I am shutting music out because I'm preoccupied or angry about something or if something else is bothering me, I just turn it off and come back to it later.

Music, like any artform, is an encounter between artist and audience, and both have to bring something to the table. The listener/reader/viewer has to come to the art object with an open mind, heart, and soul. That's what I believe.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by Reid
[B(Actually, if I may generalize, I think that's true of many of us here at jc. You almost never hear us judging music by the criteria above. It's almost irrelevent. Again, I think that's a good thing.) [/B]

Very true. When was the last time anyone here talked about 'chops' or if something swings (other than in a positive way) or any other criteria?

Remembering how it was at JCS and how it is on other boards, that's progress.

[Boris Badenov]

"How has your tastes changed or matured over time?"

My tastes has changed in favor of the number of the noun agreeing with the number of the verb.

[Tom Storer]

Boris, you're supposed to pick on Goodspeak for things like that, not Reid!

Anyway... One thing I think is probably common among young fans of any music is the crusading, proselytizing attitude toward their own taste. Jazz is not only great, it's the greatest! If only people would listen to this album I just got last week, they would realize how essential it is in the history of music - it would change their lives! When I was in high school I would sneer at most rock music - feh! In college I would insist on dragging innocent friends to jazz concerts they had no interest in.

Eventually one gets over it. Another jazz fan I knew who got over it recalled a friend describing evenings in her flat saying, "And then Ruth would put on 'A Love Supreme' and everyone had to be quiet." Ah, youth!

[Gary Sisco]

I'm on the same wavelength, here. There's no need to justify anything as far as listening goes. My answer today would simply be, "Because I like it," and leave it at that. Thankfully, I don't have any friends unhip enough to ask in the first place.

On the other hand, if I'm having company around, I normally try to pick out something I'm pretty sure they'll dig, esp if they haven't heard it before. But only if I dig it myself.

I'm the dj on this here farm. The airwaves are mine! Hurrah!

[Uli]

Originally posted by Tom Storer


One thing I think is probably common among young fans of any music is the crusading, proselytizing attitude toward their own taste.

I think this is more a matter of nerdiness than age.

[Dr Dave]

crawjo said it pretty well. You get old enough, you stop having the need to justify yourself to everyone. I used to proselytize for Bird, Trane, Miles, Monk, Mingus...I don't do that any more. Well, I still urge strangers in the street to listen to Mulgrew Miller, but that's all, really...

come on, people! There must be some listeners out here who have grown and changed in major positive directions, who have become more discriminating, sophisticated, attentive, educated, sensitive, sympathetic, and absorbing listeners. No?


Here we are discussing only how our own attitudes toward our own tastes have changed.


Sheesh!

[shrugs]

I grew into an analog junkie. There are a lot of great sounding cd's but after listing to Jascha Heifetz last night on vinyl, I may never listen to another of those silver things again. Or maybe just when I drive.

[Gary Sisco]

Reid's question is really answered by simply saying that, yes, one's tastes change over time, hopefully for the better. Like anything else. Nothing stays the same.

If anything, my listening habits have continually expanded through the years, to include more and different musical interests and listening habits.

Over the past year, I've developed an active interest, for examples, in Indian, Afghani, and various Middle Eastern musics, particular oud and the various lyre-like instruments. I remember once years ago when I went to hear David Lindsay and he said he'd just returned from Iran, where he heard cats playing some of the deepest blues he'd ever heard. Everyone laughed, but he wasn't far off the mark, actually. Shit is deep. And blue. Maybe not blues, but it's a good analogy.

[Reid]

Reid's question is really answered by simply saying that, yes, one's tastes change over time, hopefully for the better. Like anything else. Nothing stays the same.

Gary, that's overstating the case don't you think? I actually think that most people reach a point where their tastes stop changing. The people whose tastes constantly change are exceptions.

John L said,

come on, people! There must be some listeners out here who have grown and changed in major positive directions, who have become more discriminating, sophisticated, attentive, educated, sensitive, sympathetic, and absorbing listeners. No?

I think I've been enjoying pop music a lot more. I think that's a good thing, btw. What about you?

[Gary Sisco]

Reid -- I don't think so with serious music people; they're too curious. As far's "most people" go, I can't comment. I don't know how they live without boring themselves to death.

I have known people, of course, whose tastes have not changed in years, decades, even. One guy's still listening to exactly the same lp's on exactly the same equipment as he was when we were in the service together many moons ago. (He's retired now, after 30 years, so a long time ago, for sure). But he's not someone who really takes music as a serious thing in his life. Most people seem to find it a pleasant diversion or background or something. But most serious music people I've known have very wideranging tastes and are always searching out things that are new, at least to them.

[stonemonkts]

I agree with what Gary said.

Personally I have experienced an evolution in what or how I hear music, for sure. I believe it all comes down to being open to new sounds and music which at earlier periods I couldn't "get". This is what makes being a serious listener so enjoyable, the continuous sense of journey and discovery. I've always likened artist's as occupying a geography or territory of sorts, going places some have already been, and hopefully branching out to new places. If I'm fortunate enough to tag along, that's great. If not now then hopefully some time in the future. Or never, as the case may be.

[Uli]

I guess I am lucky enough to have startetd excellent taste. So my growth in listening is not as much in the direction of change of taste as more in the direction of depth of enjoyment. The new stuff I am listening to ultimately always helps me get the old stuff better.

[mke]

Originally posted by Uli
The new stuff I am listening to ultimately always helps me get the old stuff better.

Definitely. Going back to something after a few months "learning" very often changes what I hear.

[tippy]

>>By "rule oriented" I mean that I would often have a list of criteria I would mentally check off when I listened to music. Did the music swing? Was there a lot of interaction between the musicians? Is the music mainly acoustic?

In general I preferred these elements in music, but I think I might have emphasized the importance of these qualities to such an extent that hindered my ability to enjoy the music.<<

I think that's a really good point, Reid. Maybe it's a sign of maturity, or an openness to new things which could be said to be childlike: willing to be moved by whatever moves you rather than whether it fits into one's paradigm of "good" music. Why limit ourselves? Myself I have an old-fashioned, deeply felt fondness for music created without electricity. Maybe it's the reliance on something external to the relationship between musician/instrument that I object to, which is probably just my own artificially constructed concept of "organic." Silly and romantic perhaps. But the other day I was shocked--SHOCKED I tell you--*and* pleased to have found myself thoroughly enjoying a piece of electronic music played after an episode of the Sopranos. Oh my God--Techno!!! Have I no pride? Oh to tacitly dismiss all of one thing must always be a mistake.