Recommendations of good independent jazz labels

[iris]

Hi

I'm new to JC but have been browsing for months.


I am wondering if any of you could recommend any independent record labels to me for the record I am shopping around.
I've been aimlessly search on the web but don't really know where to start.

If any of you have recommendations, could you give a brief description of it and maybe why you recommend it?

About me...
I am jazz vocalist and composer influenced by musicians like Wayne Shorter (thus my name), Kenny Wheeler, Luciana Souza, Fred Hersch, Norma Winstone, and Danilo Perez.
I am also an improviser.
My recording features Ben Street on bass and Adam Cruz on drums plus a pianist and horn player.

Thanks for your help!

Iris

[Pete C]

I can think of a few:

Candid Records in the U.K. likes vocalists. It's Stacey Kent's label, as well as my man Joe Lee Wilson. They have had a windfall from the success of boy wonder Jamie Cullum:

http://www.candidrecords.com/

A Records/Challenge, in Holland, is an excellent label. I know they've done CDs by Roseanna Vitro & Diane Hubka, as well as one I have by Wheeler & Winstone:

http://www.challenge.nl/

A Records is probably more adventurous than Candid.

Sunnyside has released a bunch of albums by vocalists like Winstone, Souza, Ann Dyer, and Meredith D'Ambrosio:

http://www.sunnysidezone.com/

And let us know if you get any gigs, especially in NY. You've certainly got good taste in influences.

[graypencil]

Hi Iris:

you might want to check out the label my CD is on ..Seattle based Origin Records ..
I'ts run BY musicians ( not suits ) and the have a large variety of approches to jazz
on the label ..plus they have excellent distribution and a goot jazz DJ contact list.

Phil Kelly
www.philkellymusic.com


http://www.originarts.com/originrecords.php

[Sand]

Iris, you may find it interesting to check out Elin Rosseland and Elbjørg Raknes at NorCD .

(Norma once did a recording with Rosseland's band)

Elbjørg and Elin joins Sidsel Endresen for the experimental "Gack!" recording at Jazzland

You'll find more recordings of Sidsel Endresen's work there

[Martin]

Originally posted by Sand
(Norma once did a recording with Rosseland's band)

Sand, you must be talking of Fair Play and their recordings on Odin (from 1988; with Elin Rosseland) and on Grappa ("Far To Go" from 1992; with Norma Winstone). Any info about the personnel on "Moment", due for release on NOR in February?

IMHO, both Eldbjørg Raknes and Elin Rosseland have done much better recordings than with ESE.

[Sand]

Originally posted by Martin
Sand, you must be talking of Fair Play and their recordings on Odin (from 1988; with Elin Rosseland) and on Grappa ("Far To Go" from 1992; with Norma Winstone). Any info about the personnel on "Moment", due for release on NOR in February?

IMHO, both Eldbjørg Raknes and Elin Rosseland have done much better recordings than with ESE.

A new release by Elin Rosseland is always an event. They're rare: 1988, 1996, 2004 - and 2012???
Elin works with Rob Waring on vibraphone and Johannes Eick on bass on "Moment".

But we (I) have misunderstood Iris. She's looking for an independent label for her new recording.

[iris]

Thanks for the responses so far! I'm definitely going to check them out.
It's very helpful to have some first hand knowledge.

Do any of you know anything about these labels?
Premonition, Cadence Records, Accurate, OmniTone...

Also as a side note (for I'm sure many of you have been through this process yourselves).
Once I have selected a handful of labels, what happens next?
Is there a tactful way of presenting myself? I have a presskit but not much press from actual media which I know is crucial.

Would anyone like to share their experience when shopping their recordings around?


Iris

[Pete C]

Omnitone is one of the most consistently interesting indie jazz labels around, but I can't think offhand of any vocal projects they've done.

[jazzy mary]

Max Jazz is a great label which features a lot of vocal jazz. I believe it's Dena De Rose's new label too. Iris, you are probably familiar with the pianist Bruce Barth, he records and produces for this label. It's hq'ed in St. Louis.

[iris]

Hi Jazzy Mary and Pete C

Thanks for your advice.
From what I've seen from Maxx Jazz they seem to be a little more straight ahead and probably wouldn't be into what I'm doing. I do play standards but generally arrangements of them and I sing wordless melodies or write lyrics to jazz tunes.

I've heard that Dena DeRose was signed to Palmetto, but maybe this was wrong.
Palmetto didn't have a jazz vocalist until Kate McGarry was signed this past year., so maybe there is hope with these record labels that don't sign singers like OmniTone.

JazzyMary (if I recall correctly) you are also a vocalist. Any experiences to share as a jazz vocalist in the recording industry?

Thanks,
Iris

[Pete C]

Jazzy, you've been holding out on us!

Actually, Cookie is a singer. So is Laurie Tvedt, but she's MIA.

[idlehands]

Originally posted by iris
Thanks for the responses so far! I'm definitely going to check them out.
It's very helpful to have some first hand knowledge.

Do any of you know anything about these labels?
Premonition, Cadence Records, Accurate, OmniTone...

Iris

Premonition is based here in Chicago and I'm almost positive they don't accept unsolicited material. Ms. Barber is their main focus/artist. I know little about Cadence/NorthCountry except that you shouldn't expect a whole bunch in terms of promotion/distribution. OmniTone, from what I've heard, is at least approachable, and I think you'd be better off putting it out yourself than messing with Accurate.

Don't know if this helps, but consider what you paid for the info....

[Gary Sisco]

I'd give Palmetto a try, too. What can you lose?

[iris]

Solicited or unsoliticited?

How crucial is it to have a way in? And if you don't have a way in (meaning some contacts) how do you create contacts? How do you find out if they accept unsolicited materials...

The whole recording industry is still a mystery to me.

To Gary...
I am going to try Palmetto...actually that was my first lead. A musician on that label (not naming names) a registered JCer offered to give my cd to Palmetto. I was quite excited about that. Although I don't expect anything to happen with that. It's just a way to introduce myself to them which I think is important. The scoop that I got from the inside is that they are putting all of their energy into Kate McGarry right. She is recording another record in March.

If you all have not check Kate McGarry out, you should. Her album is in stores called "Show Me".

Anyways, thanks guys!

[jazzy mary]

Everybody thinks I'm a jazz vocalist. I get this *all* the time. I do love to sing and I know just about every song in the GAS. Some of my favorites sweeties have promised to drop whatever they're doing and be my band. Can you imagine the kind of band I could assemble!!? Trouble is, I'd be too embarrassed to sing in front of those artists. A few have heard me sing though.

Even though I haven't made a record I know enough people who have and I could "share" their experiences. Irois, if you're in NYC, you should check out the IAJE at the Hilton and the Sheraton this week. All kinds of people will be there.

[mtaylorjazz]

Originally posted by Gary Sisco
I'd give Palmetto a try, too. What can you lose?

i've approached a few labels over the last few years including CIMP and Omnitone (which was interesting because Frank Tafuri and I really seemed to hit it off and had a great conversation about the music i sent him to check out, and lots of other things. In the end, though, there was only room for one french hornist on the label and Tom Varner was there before me). I've also released one CD on a small indie label (Mapleshade) and one on my own. as a vocalist, right now, you may somewhat of an advantage over me, but i'd like to share my experiences.

in the mid-90s, after a short time on the west coast, i moved back to NY to work with Max Roach's brass quintet project. one of the first people i phoned was Lester Bowie, because i had done some subbing in Brass Fantasy and he'd always been a supportive and reliable source of real world music business information (something that i felt was lacking in my conservatory education ). anyway, we got to talking about recording and technology, etc. and (at this particular point in time, people were still saying, "internet? what's an internet?") in a fairly involved conversation, he laid out online distribution and the effects the internet could have on "creative" or "niche" musicians. looking back, he could've been describing the current online music market exactly, including CDBaby and the Apple Music Store (or Emusic, etc.).

the ONE thing he said to me that really stuck, though, was this. All a record label does is loan you money. You have to repay everything they do "for" you before you see a penny from the sales of your CD. Google some of the indie rock DIY (do it yourself) sites. there's some real eye opening stuff there about how the music industry works. now, some of the indie label, especially in jazz, etc., are much more artist friendly, but it's pretty standard that costs MUST be recouped first (not just in music).

does that mean i would turn down a chance to record for certain labels? probably not. i don't have deep enough pockets to really promote a new release properly (the upside being that if you do it yourself, you can take as long as you want pushing a single release out into the world) but if i could raise the money to hire the proper promotion team, i would definitely continue to record and release my music myself. actually, i plan to do just that.

this is not to say you should or shouldn't do anything in particular. it's just information i've stumbled across over the last few years. if you do a project yourself, just remember that the largest part of the costs of bringing ANY product to market is promotion and marketing (as musicians, we want to spend the money on the MUSIC, not the selling) and, luckily for us, something like 90% of your sales will be off the bandstand (online distribution notwithstanding) so GIG A LOT and you'll sell CDs! if you want, PM me and i can give you the URL's of some indie promotion sites that are full of info and ideas that'll be useful no matter who puts out your disc (or even before you put out a disc).

good luck with your project

Mark

[Samuel]

www.InvisibleMusicRecords.com

Home of Mark Kleinhaut, Steve Grover, Tony Gaboury and many more

[jazzy mary]

For a brilliant writing piece on his experience with being a "signed" artist to a major label--check out D.D. Jackson's website. I hope his piece on his experience is still there. It's still one of the best things I've ever read about the business side of jazz. He's really a good writer.

[iris]

Originally posted by mtaylorjazz

the ONE thing he said to me that really stuck, though, was this. All a record label does is loan you money. You have to repay everything they do "for" you before you see a penny from the sales of your CD. Google some of the indie rock DIY (do it yourself) sites. there's some real eye opening stuff there about how the music industry works. now, some of the indie label, especially in jazz, etc., are much more artist friendly, but it's pretty standard that costs MUST be recouped first (not just in music).


Mark

Hi Mark

Thanks for your input. I actually have already recorded my record so it's ready to go. I'm looking for a record label that will buy my recording and them promote it and distribute it. I know I'm not going to probably get back what I put into it but I'm really looking for the exposure that I can't get releasing it myself. I would like to eventually have some NYC based reviewers to hear it, come to my gigs, maybe get some reviews in some jazz magazines. I know that the process takes years but I'm patient.
I guess my perspective right now is that I don't plan to make money directly from CD sales. I plan to make money from the exposure I receive from getting signed to a label which will them result in gigs, hopefully.
Thanks,
Iris

[iris]

Originally posted by Samuel
www.InvisibleMusicRecords.com

Home of Mark Kleinhaut, Steve Grover, Tony Gaboury and many more

Hi Samuel,

I actually came across this label in my search and it looked promising since I grew up in New Hampshire and went to UNH. I was however bummed about the distribution. Right on the website it says that they only distribute locally which sounds like it excludes NYC where I live. Do you know anything more about this? I've heard about these guys only becasue I went to college in that area.

BY the way, do you know of any of these folks?: Chris van Voorst van Beest, Dave Devoe, Rob Stillman, Adam Schneit.......some of my New England Conservatory people from the Portland area.


Thanks for your help....

Iris

[iris]

Originally posted by jazzy mary
Irois, if you're in NYC, you should check out the IAJE at the Hilton and the Sheraton this week. All kinds of people will be there.

Hi Jazzmary,

I couldn't go to IAJE due to lack of funds (although I'll probably go to NEC things since I'm an alum). But I did go to the Nancy King workshop last night. And everybody was there: the New York Voices, Rosanna Vitro, Meredith D'Ambrosio...and some other people that I recognize.
It wasn't really an clinic where you learn structured things from Nancy. It was more of a hang. She did sing which was amazing....she also told many amazing stories. A few people were chosen randomly to sing...but they weren't too happening so that kind of bummed me out.
Overall it was a great experience to hang with Nancy since she never comes to NYC.


Iris

[mtaylorjazz]

Originally posted by iris
Hi Mark

Thanks for your input. I actually have already recorded my record so it's ready to go. I'm looking for a record label that will buy my recording and them promote it and distribute it. I know I'm not going to probably get back what I put into it but I'm really looking for the exposure that I can't get releasing it myself. I would like to eventually have some NYC based reviewers to hear it, come to my gigs, maybe get some reviews in some jazz magazines. I know that the process takes years but I'm patient.
I guess my perspective right now is that I don't plan to make money directly from CD sales. I plan to make money from the exposure I receive from getting signed to a label which will them result in gigs, hopefully.
Thanks,
Iris

iris,

being patient is very good, in fact it's essential, but keep in mind that promotion is handled by PR/Marketing people many of whom you could hire for yourself. i may be wrong, and someone correct me if i am, but my understanding is that even if a label "buys" your recording to release, you'll still be responsible for some (or all?) of the manufacturing and promotion costs which have to be recouped (tho you'll get a better cut from sales i think).

if you want to use the CD to get gigs, how will you pay for the gigs? most NYC clubs are door gigs or worse. you say you need exposure which means you're not going to be drawing that many people to your gigs yet so there'll be no money at the door. you need the money from the CD sales off the bandstand to pay the musicians in your band. the music industry has changed a lot in the last few years and labels do a LOT less artist development than they used to. again, not that you shouldn't shop and LICENSE your master, but do some research and find out how things really work. by the way, be aware that a label will charge you for those CDs you sell on your gigs (another debt you have to pay off).

you want reviewers to listen to your CD, hire Ann Braithwaite or one of the many other excellent jazz PR people/firms to promote it. that's essentially what a label will do, anyway. one advantage SOME labels have is in distribution, but even that varies, as you've no doubt discovered. all i was suggesting is that you get as much information as you possibly can so that YOU know what to expect and you can deal from a position of strength. have you sat down and figured out what you want from your music career? if you have an "i just want to get some gigs" attitude about it, then in 15 years you could very easily be playing sheraton lounges for a living. this is great if that's your goal, but not if it isn't.

anyway, i feel a rant coming on and i don't want to hijack your thread so i'll stop.

[hearsay]

Hi Iris,
Your situation is almost the same as mine a few years ago, I made a recording and shopped it around a little bit, with a little help from some connections I hooked up with Fresh Sound, which is in Spain. I sold it to them and made most of my money back. It's not really a great deal, they really don't do any promotion, and their distribution is spotty in the US, but they put out a lot of good young artists and definitely have credibility in that department, some critics and such took notice based on that and the people I had on the CD. They've only done few vocal records I think, but they have lots of CD's with your rhythm section, so it sounds like it might be a good fit. Anyway, you just have to decide what the most important factors are for you and what you're willing to compromise when finding a label and making a deal. Feel free to email for more info.

[SinginSumo]

Though I am not savvy to this end of the recording business, I wonder if MAXJAZZ label might be an appropriate label for a vocalist.

http://www.maxjazz.com/about.html

[iris]

Mark,

First of I want to thank you for sharing your experiences with me. The reason why I opened up this thread on JC is that I want to learn more about the record industry and I don't really know where else to turn. Many of my mentors who have record contracts are well established so I don't think that they have to deal with the grunt work as much; they have agents and managers for that. You say that I need to be better well informed...how do you "learn" about the record industry. Are there books? websites? Right now the only way that I have learn is by learning Ifrom other's mistakes.

You do have a point about promotion. If the labels charge the artist for promotional fees you might as well release it independently. For some reason I just thought it would "look" better if I had a label because it meant that a company believed in me as a musician and wanted to support me. But an option, I guess, is to establish my own company.

What exactly do you mean by a "I just want to play gigs" attitude. Isn't the purpose of being a musician to play music at venues; to share your music with others?

I'm in my mid-20s so I have a long career ahead of me. Most of the jazz vocalists who have careers these days are at least 35 with the exception of Jane Monheit. Many of the musicians that I play with, will play for less money than the "big guys" because they too are in the earlier stages of there career. If I have a higher profile gig I will hire the guys who recorded my on record and hopefully just that will help draw a crowd in because they have some notoriety. How to pay for the gigs? Well like many jazz musicians starting out I have a day job that suppports my career and so far has only helped my career and not hurt it.

As for my career as a jazz musician, I'm in it for the long haul and I've certainly made an investment in to it having received my masters from New Enlgand Conservatory a few years ago. I also left Boston and established residency in NYC this past summer so I think that's a big step too. I would like to eventually support myself comfortably and completely as a musician, and that does not include playing at the Sheraton. My sights are high but I think that's the only way you get anywhere. Mentors of mine, like Fred Hersch, really think I can get a record deal (on a small label of course). That in itself provides me some motivation.

I've been going back and forth on this...I think it is worth it to try to get a record deal. I'll never know if I don't try.

Iris

[Samuel]

Originally posted by iris
I actually came Invisible and it looked promising . . . . I was however bummed [because] . . . they only distribute locally which sounds like it excludes NYC where I live. Do you know anything more about this?

Invisible distributes nationally through Northern Lights. What that means is, if somebody in NYC wants to buy an Invisible disc through a store, the store is able to obtain it within a couple of days through Northern Lights. But no, the Invisible folk are not going to go door to door hustling NYC record stores for business.

BY the way, do you know of any of these folks?: Chris van Voorst van Beest, Dave Devoe, Rob Stillman, Adam Schneit.......some of my New England Conservatory people from the Portland area.

Chris VVVVB: A wonderful musician and good fella. Check him out on Steve Grover's outstanding CD BREATH on, guess what, Invisible. Chris is living near NYC and making it work. I think his biggest "name" gig to date was some recent gigs with Jeff Coffin. I play often with Chris' brother, Jan Van Voorst Van Beest, who is a fine drummer and good pal. Chris also plays in a band called "Kalifactors" with . . .

Rob Stillman: Fine saxophonist living in NYC. His very proud dad, Neil, is a pal.

Others: Nope.


Hope this is some help.

[mtaylorjazz]

Originally posted by iris
Mark,

First of I want to thank you for sharing your experiences with me. The reason why I opened up this thread on JC is that I want to learn more about the record industry and I don't really know where else to turn.

What exactly do you mean by a "I just want to play gigs" attitude. Isn't the purpose of being a musician to play music at venues; to share your music with others?

I've been going back and forth on this...I think it is worth it to try to get a record deal. I'll never know if I don't try.

Iris

iris,

first off, let me say that i'm not trying to bust your chops and i think my earlier posts may have come across that way. this is a topic that i'm extremely passionate about. i think artists should do as much for themselves as possible (especially those of us in less "commercial" areas of music) and those things an artist can't do for himself, he should have a working familiarity with so the likelihood of being ripped of is cut dramatically. Actually, I KNOW I need to be better informed (and i'm working on it), and I BELIEVE that many of the rest of us do too.

actually, i went to NEC as well and am about to go back to finish my Masters (i left because i had opportunities to play with Max Roach and Muhal Richard Abrams and didn't want to pass that up) and probably on to a DMA or PhD somewhere.

There are books and websites that deal with the whole DIY music scene but most of it is aimed at indie rock and hip hop artists so there's some extrapolation that has to be done, but it is worth looking into. Some of the best info i ever got was from older jazz musicians that i met after i got here (learning from others mistakes AND successes). if you want to PM me, i'll go through my stuff and find some of that info for you.

about the "just wanna play gigs" thing? i just meant movement without direction or planning. i don't know how many crappy, no money gigs you've done for people who weren't listening at a venue where if seemed as if everyone, esp. the waitstaff wished you weren't there (cuz you're in the way of traffic to and from the kitchen), but i can tell you that i'd MUCH rather be a guest artist at a concert of jazz adaptations of Penderecki material performed by an international band at a series of concert halls in Poland anyday. no career planning or knowledge of the music BUSINESS = lounge gigs, imho. that's all.

Yes, i believe it is about getting music out to the people. Communicating your vision of how the universe sounds. You can't do much of that if all your attention is on paying rent and trying to feed yourself. Anyway, i'll dig up those references for you. Every artist deserves as much information as they can get in order to continue to be artists. To grow and progress and prosper and have as many people as possible be exposed to the work.

by all means, there are some great indie labels out there. i guess i'm just saying be careful and be informed.


Mark

PS: check out Hal Galper's book about booking a band. real nuts and bolts kind of stuff. The Touring Musician

[Pete C]

Hey Mark, as far as Omnitone and Tom are concerned, maybe it's time for a French horn summit album. If you add Chancey & Clark you can call yourselved Les Quatres Freres.

[mtaylorjazz]

Originally posted by Pete C
Hey Mark, as far as Omnitone and Tom are concerned, maybe it's time for a French horn summit album. If you add Chancey & Clark you can call yourselved Les Quatres Freres.

indeed! at one time i wanted to do a jazz horn choir (like howard johnson's gravity), but never got it off the ground. i think it'd be fun to do a horn summit. just like the old julius watkins festival (except we didn't actually play together on those...)