Kudos to the ESL Posters

[Pete C]

I continue to be impressed by the articulate and thoughtful offerings by our many posters whose first language is not English. If only all of our native English speakers were so articulate.

[SinginSumo]

The so-called native speakers of English that you refer to are nothing less than a horrible embarrassment.

Couldn't agree with you more, Pete.

[Salvador Dali Lama]

Originally posted by SinginSumo

Couldn't agree with you more, Pete.

Who couldn't?

[Brian Olewnick]

Originally posted by Pete C
I continue to be impressed by the articulate and thoughtful offerings by our many posters whose first language is not English.

Does Goody qualify?

[SinginSumo]

Originally posted by Salvador Dali Lama
Who couldn't?

The "I" is understood in the context of the sentence that is conversational in tone.

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Either an attempt at "humor" here or an example of your point, Pete.

[Pete C]

I've always liked this title by the late poet Tim Dlugos:

[Sergio Zamora]

I'm kinda curious who here, aside from me, is not a native English speaker.

[moneyp]

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
I'm kinda curious who here, aside from me, is not a native English speaker.

My first language is Esperanto. I grew up watching an Esperanto-language television station. Reruns of THE SUCCUBUS over and over.

[Jazzzoline]

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
I'm kinda curious who here, aside from me, is not a native English speaker.

I speak French only. I sometimes read English, I "try" to type in English.

[Monte Smith]

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
I'm kinda curious who here, aside from me, is not a native English speaker.

Screw them, I wanna know who the "inarticulate native English speakers" are who are "nothing less than a horrible embarrassment."

[moneyp]

Originally posted by Monte Smith
Screw them, I wanna know who the "inarticulate native English speakers" are who are "nothing less than a horrible embarrassment."

Than you can ask him via PM. You guys aren't resuming your pissing match here.

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Jazzzoline
I speak French only. I sometimes read English, I "try" to type in English.

I'm just curious, Jazzzoline, did you grow up in Quebec? Are there a lot of French-only speakers there, or are most truly bilingual?

[Jazzzoline]

Originally posted by Tanager
I'm just curious, Jazzzoline, did you grow up in Quebec? Are there a lot of French-only speakers there, or are most truly bilingual?

Yes I was born in Québec city. Québec, the province, is basically french talking. There are exceptions though: Montréal looses franch for english and all the languages brought by those who immigrate. Hull-Gatneau is very English due to poeple working in Ottawa, Ontario,(federal government). Those are the largest cities.

Québec city is French talking. And, here, poeple in general only speaks french.

[Captain Hate]

Tanager, you and Mrs. T ought to visit Quebec City one of these days. It is absolutely gorgeous there. Mrs Hate and I went there in October 2002 (there's a thread in the archives where I asked posters for recommendations on what to do there and in Montreal) which is a great time both for the scenery and tourism isn't as heavy as in the summer, although it never really ceases there. People are extremely friendly there and, although I speak French ok, everybody there spoke English better than I spoke French. Jazzoo and Glenda went there after the Montreal Jazz fest last summer and I believe had a very good time also. I like to describe the experience as travelling to Europe without taking a long plane ride.

[Monte Smith]

Originally posted by mone peterson
You guys aren't resuming your pissing match here.

Haha. Fair enough, MP. But surely you are aware that I am articulate enough to conduct a pissing match uncontested by anybody.

[Cem]

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
I'm kinda curious who here, aside from me, is not a native English speaker.

ETL: You probably know this, but English is my turd language. I learned (& promptly forgot) German following my mother tongue of Turkish. I may be incoherent 1/2 the time and only operate with a limited vocab, but I love kicking native English speakers' asses in Scrabble! My greatest pleasure was regularly beating an old Sco--ish neighbour in Scrabble and rubbing it in with much glee (as any good immigrant ought to), which really burned him up...

[Jazzzoline]

Originally posted by Monte Smith
Haha. Fair enough, MP. But surely you are aware that I am articulate enough to conduct a pissing match uncontested by anybody.

Maybe the hat doesn't fit you ( unarticulate)

[Ron Thorne]

For what it's worth, I quite agree with Pete's initial post, and think I understand his motivation, as well. It was an appreciative nod toward one group, while not pointing a demeaning finger at others.

I'm not about to create a list of JC posters for whom English is their 2nd language, but it shouldn't require an extraordinary amount of mental exercise to conjur up over a dozen "regulars". I wouldn't want to unwittingly slight anyone but overlooking them, either.

[Uli]

I would like to sincerely extend my gratitude for Pete's most insightful post.

[Cem]

afaik, Pete is UN's Goodwill Embassador to JazzCorner, no...? (I mean that in a nice way...)

Of the folks for whom English is a second language, the ones who blow me away the most are those with no knowledge of Germanic languages. English is a really messed up language. A ton of exceptions, there are many specific words for each and every thing etc., yet I think you can manouevre OK, if you already speak a Germanic language. Especially, most Europeans I meet, speak more "thoughtful" English -they try to be very precise- than many native English speakers.

French, for me at least, was ultra-difficult, when I started and stopped pretty soon after. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to learn English for speakers of Romance languages! Not to mention Asian & African languages!

[Ron Thorne]

Cem, I agree with your notion that Pete is a worthy UN Goodwill Ambassador to JC ... on many levels.

My wife and I are quite familiar with ESL programs, inasmuch as one of our sons has dated ESL students, as well as taught ESL in Japan.

Since Justin can speak (and write) Japanese fluently, we're very appreciative of skills we haven't honed as finely as he. We're also impressed by many of Justin's Japanese friends who possess English skills far greater than they credit themselves.

[Salvador Dali Lama]

Originally posted by SinginSumo
The "I" is understood in the context of the sentence that is conversational in tone.

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Either an attempt at "humor" here or an example of your point, Pete.

but it 'taint exactly articulate.

[SinginSumo]

It wasn't intended to sound "lofty" in that post. It was, AGAIN, intended to be conversational in tone. Your meaning of "articulate" means to express one's self readily, clearly and/or effectively; my post communicated so.

[Chris D]

I would like to second Pete's sentiment.

As someone with a stumbling understanding of Spanish to show for six years of study, I can really appreciate those who make the effort to communicate in other than their native tongue.

Those who self-identified here are among the more thoughtful and valuable contributors to JC.

[clinthopson]

Pete,

Thumbs up!