String the fucker up! (Fla. girl killer)

[Gentle Giant]

Stories like this not only make me sick to my stomach (I have a daughter) but also test my anti-death penalty stance. What really kills me in tragedies like this is how you learn how the "system" - had it worked - would have kept monsters like this off the street. Of course, what can you expect from Florida, but how this guy got acquitted with such a ridiculously lame excuse is beyond me. And 13 arrests? I don't care what they were for, major or minor offenses, if someone is so committed to breaking the law, is such a serial criminal, then he or she should not be allowed to remain free under any circumstances.

RIP Carlie. I'm so sorry your society failed you.


Body of missing Florida girl found
Suspect under arrest

By Mitch Stacy, Associated Press, 2/6/2004

SARASOTA, Fla. -- The body of an 11-year-old girl whose abduction was captured by a surveillance camera was found Friday in a church parking lot, and a mechanic has been charged with her murder.

Sarasota County sheriff's officials said Carlie Brucia's body was found about 1 a.m. outside a church a few miles from the car wash where she was abducted. Authorities did not say how she died or whether she had been raped.

Sheriff Bill Balkwill said Joseph P. Smith, 37, has been charged with the girl's murder. Smith, who could face the death penalty if convicted of first-degree murder, is believed to be the tattooed man in a mechanic's shirt who was seen in the surveillance video leading Carlie away by the arm Sunday evening, authorities said.

Investigators found the body after negotiations with Smith, said a law enforcement source who spoke on condition of anonymity. Earlier, authorities had said Smith was not cooperating.

"We now stand ready to complete our obligation, and assure you that he will pay the ultimate price for what he did to her," Capt. Jeff Bell said.

Late in the morning, crime scene technicians dressed in white coveralls pulled the body from under some thick underbrush near the church parking lot. The covered body was placed on a stretcher and taken away by a white van.

The girl's father, Joe Brucia, somberly thanked "all the (law enforcement) people behind me and all the people that were behind them in their efforts to find my daughter." He also thanked "the community that was so involved."

The Central Church of Christ was surrounded by yellow crime scene tape Friday, and about a dozen detectives walked in a line across the field in an evidence sweep. The declined to comment.

Carlie's stepfather, Steven Kansler, and some friends gathered at the edge of the church property Friday morning, kneeling in a prayer circle.

Rod Myers, the church's minister, said a Bible study group met there Wednesday night but nobody saw the body because it was dark.

"We are all upset about it, and we all feel helpless when things like this happen," Myers said.

In the front yard of Carlie's home, decorated with banners and posters reading, "We love you, Carlie," another small group of supporters joined hands and bowed their heads in prayer. The girl's family includes Carlie's 6-year-old half brother and a 10-year-old stepbrother.

Friends described Carlie as a beautiful girl who loved watching actress Jennifer Lopez, going to the mall and greeting friends with warm hugs. She was heading home from a slumber party when she was abducted.

Bob Hagemann, principal of MacIntosh Middle School, called Carlie "a shining light" at his school.

Carlie's friend Natalie Thomas cried after hearing that her classmate's body was found. She remembered Carlie's smile and that she liked to go on walks.

"There's nothing you can do to make anybody feel better and it's going to hurt for a long, long time," said Chuck Chambers, a private investigator who was working with the family.

"I need my daughter home," Carlie's mother, Susan Schorpen, had said Thursday. "She's a very, very important part of this family and community."

Members of her former Girl Scout troop took a day off from school Wednesday to pass out fliers at shopping centers, canvass neighborhoods and distribute pink ribbons adorned with Carlie's name.

A reward fund of $50,000 was offered for information.

Smith has been arrested at least 13 times in Florida since 1993, according to state records, and convicted of drug possession and other charges. He was arrested in 1997 in Manatee County on a false imprisonment charge but was acquitted a year later.

Smith's public defender, Adam Tebrugge, did not return a call Friday seeking comment.

Linda Thompson, who lives next door to Smith's family, described the suspect as a good father to his three daughters. She remembered him playing with them in the yard and building a goldfish pond for them in the front of the house.

"That's the Joe we saw, so when this started it was hard to believe that there's a different side," Thompson said.

Carlie was walking home from a friend's house at about 6:20 p.m. Sunday when she took a short cut behind Evie's Car Wash, which was closed for the day.

Bloodhounds led deputies to the business, and car wash owner Mike Evanoff checked the security system video Monday, he said. The images of Carlie popped up almost immediately, he said.

"It was cold chills right up my back," Evanoff said earlier this week. "My manager couldn't even look at it. It's an awful feeling."

In the 1997 false imprisonment case, a 20-year-old woman in Bradenton said a man grabbed her as she walked by and tried to pull her away, according to records released by the Manatee County Sheriff's Office.

"He got on top of me and told me to shut up or he would cut me," she told authorities. After a struggle, she said, she managed to run into the street, and passengers in an approaching van stopped and rescued her.

Smith, found hiding behind a house by a police tracking dog, was acquitted by jurors after telling them he was trying to keep the woman from running into the street and she misunderstood.

[Dr Dave]

My only question is, which costs less: Snuffing him or putting him in a cage for the rest of his life? My understanding is that up to now it costs us more to kill a murderer than to keep him alive but permanently out of society. The costs are associated with mandatory appeals, etc. I don't know where I read this so I don't know whether it's accurate or not. Anybody up on the subject?

[Gordon B]

Originally posted by Dr Dave
My only question is, which costs less: Snuffing him or putting him in a cage for the rest of his life? My understanding is that up to now it costs us more to kill a murderer than to keep him alive but permanently out of society. The costs are associated with mandatory appeals, etc. I don't know where I read this so I don't know whether it's accurate or not. Anybody up on the subject?

If executions are limited to DNA confidence at the 1/1 billion level then I think that appeals can be so limited as to making execution less costly than life imprisonment without chance of parole.

Dave, I don't know the current answer to you question. Another good question, is the deterrent value of an execution > 1 life? That may depend on the nature of the crime. I would end one murderer's life to save an expected value of 1 innocent life.

[jesus marion joseph]

I agree (on a personal level) that whoever is guilty of this atrocity deserves to be treated in kind. On a professional level, however, I am disturbed by some of the sentiments expressed here, which seem to indicate that everyone is ready to convict the guy who has refused to talk to the police, and who, apparently, is being charged with the crime, especially since the only information we have on this matter is what the media have reported, and that is from the police. I'm also a little appalled at the comments of the Sarasota police, indicating that they are going to make sure that this guy (who hasn't yet had a chance to see the evidence against him, let alone put it to the test) is going to "pay the ultimate price", or whatever they said.

I don't doubt that they've got the most likely suspect (based upon what little we know), but I hate the mob mentality that springs up around such sensational accusations. That's why we have trials and juries.

Off my soapbox now.

[HenryMc]

JMJ you are right. Our societies have always contained two notions of justice, the lynch ém philosophy of the mob and the more ordered consideration of the court.

As humans we are tested by those cases that hit us emotionally. Mass murders, gang rapes and child killings readily spring to mind as examples where I am called to question my own anti-capital punishment stance and I see others question their values too.

[shrugs]

Originally posted by Gentle Giant
And 13 arrests? I don't care what they were for, major or minor offenses, if someone is so committed to breaking the law, is such a serial criminal, then he or she should not be allowed to remain free under any circumstances.

So if I am arrested 13 times for being drunk in public, I should be put in prison for life? I know someone who has been arrested more than a handful of times during Mardi Gras for petty crimes like being drunk and for smoking pot. Guess he's on his way to life in prison in your eyes.

[jesus marion joseph]

I agree with your post, Henry. Were it not for my chosen profession, I might well be inclined to chime in on the "lynch 'em" bandwagon. The crime itself is hideous, no doubt, especially given the fact that the apparent abduction was caught in full color on video tape. I wonder if the police would have found a suspect without that tape?

I disagree.

And of course, this story hits me even closer to home having spent many of my teenybop days in Sarasota, hanging with my friends at the mall, or catching some rays on Siesta Key, etc....

Mob mentality? The monster led authorities to the girls body. Does that mean he did it? Well, it damn sure looks suspicious, doesn't it?

I say pull Old Sparky out of mothballs and fry that piece of shit until there is nothing left. And fry all those bleeding heart pieces of shit picketing outside the prison at the time crying about how "inhumane" we're treating this monster at the same time.

If I was this girls father, that cocksucker would never even make it into the courthouse.

Then lets round up all the motherfuckers responsible for letting this asshole back out on the street in the first place, and gas those fuckers en masse. Let that be a curt little message to all these bleeding heart types that bend and twist the legal system and allows this kind of predator to walk free.

I say it's time to start holding all the loophole chasers accountable. Under penalty of death.

[Gentle Giant]

Granted, but this is almost certainly the guy because they matched the enhanced image from the tape and a defining tattoo, and because through "negotiations" he essentially told the cops where the body is. They have his car, they've been through his house; it's clear that while it hasn't been made public yet, they have physical evidence linking him to the crime. Plus, it's also been demonstrated that it's his MO. A DNA match is sure to follow.

Now, given that, this guy's going to walk into court and plead not guilty. Even if it can be proven with metaphysical certainty that this guy is guilty, he can and will plead not guilty and start the meter running. Taxpayer money will support some ridiculous defense strategy that will keep this jerk bathed and fed while we pray that a jury will decide what God and Carlie already know: that this guy is guilty. Then they'll put him away while the legal money-go-round starts again.

I believe in allowing the accused to put up a strong defense, but it seems to me that if incontrovertible evidence, such as DNA, were established early, then you'd have to say: you're guilty, case closed. After all, what does guilty mean? It means the sonofabitch did the crime. If he pleads not guilty when in fact he is guilty, that should be perjury. The legal system actually condones lying in order that murderers can save their frickin' asses! This guy did it. Put him away. Forget about him. On to the next one.

[Chris D]

I'm glad GG and Dolan are not in charge of the judiciary.
Everyone gets their day in court. It's part of what makes the United States the United States.

You're right, GG. But don't put him away. Kill him. His prescence on this Earth is no longer of any value.

Yeah, and the courts are what fucks this country over almost daily. Just ask Carlie.

Due process and common sense are not mutually exclusive.

[Ron Thorne]

My sincere condolences to the Brucia family and Carlie's many friends.

RIP, Carlie Brucia~

[jesus marion joseph]

I'll have to say that I'm a bit stunned by Jason's statements. I understand the desire for retribution, but holy smokes. Find him guilty if the DNA matches? Without a trial? Ye gads.

Your future could be decided by some science geek (no offense to science geeks out there) in a white lab coat. Better hope he ate his Wheaties on the day he studies your sample.

BTW, I wasn't aware that the suspect led the cops to the body. That would certainly seem to mitigate against his innocence, even if only in an accessory role. Having said that, I still prefer the prove-I'm-guilty approach.

[frankiepop]

My only question is, which costs less: Snuffing him or...

snuff him! dont be a pussy.

[Tanager]

No offense, but to those who ordinarily oppose capital punishment, what is it about this case that makes you so willing to join the "book 'em and cook 'em" faction? People do sick things to each other every day, many of them just as sick as this, why is it that you suddenly think due process should be tossed out the window (personally, I oppose the death penalty without exception, so due process or not, I know where I stand on the final step)?

Hell, Scott, you may be one step removed from needing band-aids for your knuckles, but at least you're consistent. I love you, man!

[Dr Dave]

and now the REAL jmj emerges....

[GoodSpeak]

I am steadfastly opposed to the death penalty as many of you know...but the murderer should be given a life sentence, without parole, in a cell with Bubba.


The bastard son-of-a-bitch.


How could anyone do this to a child?

[Pete C]

Originally posted by Dr Dave
and now the REAL jmj emerges....

It's times like this that I realize he's not so bad after all.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Pete C
It's times like this that I realize he's not so bad after all.

Yeah...for a Pasaat/SUV driver he ain't so bad after all, huh

[crawjo]

Originally posted by Scott Dolan
You're right, GG. But don't put him away. Kill him. His prescence on this Earth is no longer of any value.

Are you the one who determines whose life does and does not have value now? You know absolutely nothing about this man, other than that he is accused of this crime, and that the evidence outlined in the press suggests he is guilty. And based on that knowledge, you are prepared to pass sentence on the value of his life? What gives you the moral authority to peer into a man's soul and determine the value of it, or lack thereof?

I oppose the death penalty because all life has value. Even this criminal. By all means, if he is guilty, imprison him for the rest of his life, without the possibility of parole. What good does it do to kill him? Will his death bring that little girl back? No, it won't. It will serve no purpose other than to provide blood-thirsty lynch mobs with a feeling of retribution. After all, "an eye for an eye," right?

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by crawjo
Are you the one who determines whose life does and does not have value now? You know absolutely nothing about this man, other than that he is accused of this crime, and that the evidence outlined in the press suggests he is guilty. And based on that knowledge, you are prepared to pass sentence on the value of his life? What gives you the moral authority to peer into a man's soul and determine the value of it, or lack thereof?

I oppose the death penalty because all life has value. Even this criminal. By all means, if he is guilty, imprison him for the rest of his life, without the possibility of parole. What good does it do to kill him? Will his death bring that little girl back? No, it won't. It will serve no purpose other than to provide blood-thirsty lynch mobs with a feeling of retribution. After all, "an eye for an eye," right?

What Crawjo said.


Bravo, my friend.



Nice post.

Hell, Scott, you may be one step removed from needing band-aids for your knuckles, but at least you're consistent. I love you, man! - Tanny

What do you mean "one step"? Word to the wise, take stock in Curad my friend.

Oh, and it's been a while since I told you, but, I hate you Tanager, you evil, EVIL man!

Are you the one who determines whose life does and does not have value now? - Crawjo

No Crawjo, it is just my opinion of what should happen to an evil and soulless sub-human fuck that could do such an unspeakable thing to an innocent young child. You read into my statements a little too deeply. I have a son, and even though you do not need to be a parent to be appalled by this act, I reacted to it in an even more violent fashion because somewhere in the deep dark reaches of the human mind you somehow play this shit out using the innocence and sweetness of your own child and it makes you so incredibly enraged to even imagine that someone who walks this Earth is capable of such an atrocity that something inside just snaps.

And then to hear all the bleeding hearts who are more worried about how this despicable beast is treated just makes me even angrier. How about how he treated this little girl?

You know absolutely nothing about this man, other than that he is accused of this crime, and that the evidence outlined in the press suggests he is guilty.

He was on the video grabbing this little girl and leading her away. He has an incredibly lengthy criminal history. Arrested what, 13 times? He led the authorities to her body. Oh, I'm sorry Crawjo, perhaps all of these things are simply coincidence. I'm sure I should give him a little more leeway and understanding.

Fuck that, and FUCK ANYONE who suggests it!!!

And based on that knowledge, you are prepared to pass sentence on the value of his life?

Yes.

I oppose the death penalty because all life has value.

Hey, no offense Crawjo, but cry me a fucking river already.

It's this kind of live and let live liberla nonsense that allowed that son of a bitch to be walking the streets that night. Had he been behind bars, this would have never happened. But there's always someone, somewhere who's looking out for these murderous pieces of shit, taking advantage of loopholes and whatnot.

What good does it do to kill him?

This is a fair enough question. But in all fairness I also have to ask you, what GOOD does it do to keep him alive?

You are a smart man, Crawjo, I would never say anything otherwise. But your post sickened me.

[crawjo]

Originally posted by Scott Dolan
What do you mean "one step"? Word to the wise, take stock in Curad my friend.

Oh, and it's been a while since I told you, but, I hate you Tanager, you evil, EVIL man!



No Crawjo, it is just my opinion of what should happen to an evil and soulless sub-human fuck that could do such an unspeakable thing to an innocent young child. You read into my statements a little too deeply. I have a son, and even though you do not need to be a parent to be appalled by this act, I reacted to it in an even more violent fashion because somewhere in the deep dark reaches of the human mind you somehow play this shit out using the innocence and sweetness of your own child and it makes you so incredibly enraged to even imagine that someone who walks this Earth is capable of such an atrocity that something inside just snaps.

And then to hear all the bleeding hearts who are more worried about how this despicable beast is treated just makes me even angrier. How about how he treated this little girl?



He was on the video grabbing this little girl and leading her away. He has an incredibly lengthy criminal history. Arrested what, 13 times? He led the authorities to her body. Oh, I'm sorry Crawjo, perhaps all of these things are simply coincidence. I'm sure I should give him a little more leeway and understanding.

Fuck that, and FUCK ANYONE who suggests it!!!



Yes.



Hey, no offense Crawjo, but cry me a fucking river already.

It's this kind of live and let live liberla nonsense that allowed that son of a bitch to be walking the streets that night. Had he been behind bars, this would have never happened. But there's always someone, somewhere who's looking out for these murderous pieces of shit, taking advantage of loopholes and whatnot.



This is a fair enough question. But in all fairness I also have to ask you, what GOOD does it do to keep him alive?

You are a smart man, Crawjo, I would never say anything otherwise. But your post sickened me.

My post sickened you? You shoot off saying that those who stand outside while the man is executed should be put to death as well, and my post sickened you? Good, I'm glad. Your lynch mob mentality sickens me.

You know, I have a little girl of my own. She's only four months old, and god forbid anything like this should ever happen to her. Don't think that I don't worry about things like this myself. But the death penalty does absolutely nothing to prevent it from happening. What's the good in keeping a murderer alive? Because, unlike the murderer, we as a society can recognize the value in human life, how about that? And you know what else? People can change. I believe in God, and because I believe in God I believe that whatever this man did, he will have to answer for one day, regardless of what our justice system has to say about it.

It is the murderer whose life you say has no value who also can look into the eyes of his victim and decide that their life has no value. So I say that we as a society should hold ourselves to a higher standard, one that affirms the sanctity of human life. Why? Because it's the right thing to do, that's why. No, it doesn't give us the warm satisfaction of bloody vengeance. All it does is administer justice. Oh, but there's more of that liberla nonsense. You know, an individual's right to a fair trial, and all that. I guess if somebody gets caught with marijuana one too many times in your world, they should just be locked up forever. And I guess the new standard is "guilty until proven innocent." I mean, I guess we should look up every guy who is now free after being arrested 13 times (no matter what the reason) and throw them all in jail on the off chance that one day they'll kill some little girl. Is this your notion of justice?

Liberla nonsense? Yeah, okay. If its liberla nonsense then tell me why the ultra-conservative Catholic Church is against the death penalty as well. Tell me, how was it exactly that Jesus Christ died? Oh, right, he was put to death. He was put to death next to two criminals. And while the three of them are hanging up there on the cross, Jesus turns to one of the criminals and says "Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." Oh, I'm sorry, I shouldn't be quoting from that liberla Bible again.

The fact is, you are in no position to judge the inherent value of another human being's life. You aren't God. Do all murderers lack souls? This week a 17-year-old kid who was the star running back at his high school in Washington, D.C. was killed, shot in the back by another kid. Does that kid who shot him in cold blood lack a soul as well? Where do you draw the line between murderers who have souls and murderers who don't? Are the ones who don't restricted to those who target 11-year-old girls whose pictures get plastered all over the evening news?

What I'm gathering from you is that you are opposed to due process, don't value the sanctity of human life, believe that long-time criminals should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives, and that, in cases such as these, we should just bypass that whole pesky trial by one's peers business, toss out the Bill of Rights, and proceed right to the electric chair. Tell me, Scott, what exactly was your problem with Saddam Hussein?

[walto]

Two very impassioned posts by two people who are extremely committed to their widely divergent beliefs on this subject. Really great stuff. The Speakeasy is most excellent, is it not?

Have at it, gentlemen!

[Tom Storer]

I'm as appalled as anyone at this affair, but I'm opposed to capital punishment, period, and it isn't the circumstances of any particular murder that will change that. If you're opposed to capital punishment with exceptions, then guess what? You're not opposed to capital punishment.

This doesn't mean that I'm concerned that this alleged murderer Smith not have his feelings hurt, or that his psychological well-being is foremost among my concerns, which is the image of anti-death-penalty people that pro-death-penalty people often like to project. Far from feeling sorry for him or being willing to make excuses for him, I feel distinct revulsion bordering on visceral hatred (if indeed he is the murderer). If he is executed, I won't shed a tear for him. But that has nothing to do with the issue of whether or not society should have the right to put people to death.

Personally, despite the instinctive desire for revenge that incidents like this call forth from virtually all of us, I also think of Smith's daughters. Having to deal with the fact that your dad is a vicious child-killer is bad enough, without seeing him executed to boot.

Incidentally, what apparently happened was that Smith told somebody else in jail that he had killed the girl, and where he put the body. It was that other inmate who led authorities to the body. It does seem extremely probable that Smith is the murderer. But as jmj points out, courts and juries are not there for decoration. Due process is due process.

[stonemonkts]

I've been made to feel like a barbarian for not opposing the death penalty in previous threads. Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit but I did sense a certain distaste towards my beliefs.

But I really don't care. If someone is absolutely guilty of murder I believe the person has sacrificed their own humanity and should therefore be extinguished. Not because I don't believe people can change....FUCK THAT, WHY SHOULD A MURDERER BE ALLOWED THAT OPPORTUNITY???? Rather to punish AND deter future murders. The murderer will be deterred when they're dead.

I really and truly believe that opponents to the death penalty are unable to imagine what it would be to lose a loved one in this manner.

If it happened to someone close to me I would kill them myself.

I am not religious in the slightest. I believe religious people suffer from a weakness, a teddy bear syndrome if you will. The great warm blankie in the sky. Fuck that. Grow up already.

Aside from feeling rage towards murderers, I also possess a very cold scientific basis behind my views. It is not vengeance as much as ridding society of the worst people. Locking them up forever is cowardly. If you lived in an isolated place and caught someone murdering your child, would you detain them, build a cage, house and feed them forever?

Yeah I know we live in civilized times blah blah blah but I don't see the fundamental difference. It still makes no sense to keep them around unless you use them for cancer research or what have you.

Stonemonk the barbarian

[Tanager]

Originally posted by stonemonkts
Aside from feeling rage towards murderers, I also possess a very cold scientific basis behind my views. It is not vengeance as much as ridding society of the worst people. Locking them up forever is cowardly.

How, precisely, is asserting that not executing murderers is cowardly based on any sort of scientific basis?

Having said, while I didn't agree with a single word of your post, it was pretty damned funny, and I thank you for that.

[lazarus]

I hate the lynch-mob mentality that are expressed in some posts here.

[steve(thelil)]

The fact that some people clearly don't deserve to live doesn't necessarily mean that the best thing for society is to have the death penalty. It's an easier concept to understand when one's mind isn't being directed by one's venom.

I'd love to personally kill the murdering fucker. AND I'm against the death penalty. The fact that even a fucking saint like me would like to kill the guy with a baseball bat to the side of the head is not proof that the death penalty benefits society.

What we need to do is to help spread the conviction that killing humans is unthinkable. The way to do it is not by killing them with great hubris and fanfare.