HDTV

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Well, I finally decided to enter another "high end" realm: High Definition Television. My 17 year-old Mitsubishi TV died late last year and I picked up a large CRT Sony set. It came with "HDTV capability"... what the heck does that mean? Well, it meant it could display an HDTV signal. Unfortunately, it didn't come with the necessary tuner.

Well, a couple of weeks ago, my cable company, Adelphia, offered an HDTV package. I picked up this special box, a Scientific Atlanta 3250HD and off I went. Luckily, my SA box had an activated DVI output (I had done some research that showed that not all of them come activated) so I was able to use this newer, digital hookup.

To sum it up: Incredible. I just can't believe I'm watching a signal from cable. I watch some sitcoms like "Eight Simple Rules" in this format and it's like I'm watching them through a window. My only complaint so far has been that ABC seems to screw up the audio/video sync all the time. No problems with NBC. Adelphia hasn't gotten approval for CBS yet.

BTW, anyone in any large market, be it Boston or LA or anywhere in between, you have these signals flying around in the air. No lie. In fact, you don't even need an HDTV-ready set to take advantage of these digital signals. Go buy a Samsung SIR-T351 and hook up an antenna (UHF only) and you'll receive crystal clear digital broadcasts. All that gets transmitted is 1's and 0's so there's no ghosts, no snow, just perfect picture. It's mind-boggling.

Later,
Kevin

[Enforcer]

This technology blew me away when I first saw it. I had heard a lot and sort of dismissed it, but then one day during a Christmas shopping excursion at Best Buy I stopped by the electronics area just to poke around. Of all things, they had a hockey game on in HDTV. I nearly sh** my pants. I had no idea the definition was *that* much better. I've been scoping one of those plasma TVs. If the NHL CBA is resolved succesfully and I'm confident I won't have to wait 2 years to see some games in HD, I will buy one by summertime.

Larry

You can also watch hi-def television broadcasts on your computer as well.

[jazzfiend]

Welcome to the club! I recently snagged a new Samsung 50" DLP when my 15 year old Mitsu bit the dust. Within 2 weeks, Comcast cable offered the hdtv signal in my area.

Result: resolution, clarity & detail which causes jaw dropping every time. Only problem is that very few channels are offered at this time.

Yeah, it's like looking thru a window with absolutely no obstructions.

[jesus marion joseph]

Wow, that HDTV receiver is f***ing expensive!

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Originally posted by jesus marion joseph
Wow, that HDTV receiver is f***ing expensive!

Nah... that $500 price for the Sammy SIR-T351 is MSRP. I've seen it for under $250. Besides, I only list that one because it's the latest and has a DVI output. Look around for a Samsung SIR-T151 in Best Buy's "Open Box Specials" section. They typically go for under $150. I read where someone got one for $110. No DVI but it has RF (cable), composite, S & component video outputs. Using the component outs will get you crystal clear picture on almost any TV and amazing HD on an HDTV set.

Just don't go checking it out at a store unless you plan to buy one... the urge to buy will be too compelling.

BTW, to find out what's being broadcast digitally in your area, check out this link and type in your Zip. When I type mine in, it lists:
WBZ-DT ( CBS ) DTV Ch(s): 30.1 Main Format: 1080i
WCVB-DT ( ABC ) DTV Ch(s): 20
WFXT-DT ( FOX ) DTV Ch(s): 31
WGBH-DT ( PBS ) Multicasting: Yes DTV Ch(s): 19.2 Main Format: 1080i
WGBX-DT ( PBS ) Multicasting: Yes DTV Ch(s): 19.1 Main Format: 480i
WHDH-DT ( NBC ) DTV Ch(s): 42
WLVI-DT ( WB ) DTV Ch(s): 41
WMUR-DT ( ABC ) DTV Ch(s): 59
WNEU-DT ( Telemundo ) DTV Ch(s): 34 Main Format: Telemundo
WSBK-DT ( UPN ) DTV Ch(s): 39.1 Main Format: 1080i
WUTF-DT ( Ind. ) DTV Ch(s): 23

Virtuallu every over the air (OTA) station is broadcasting digitally. The numbers under "DTV Ch(s)" are simple UHF channel numbers. Basically, if I live in the Boston metro area, I could hook up one of these DTV tuners, attach some "rabbit ears" and get perfect TV free. Beats the hell out of cable. I almost went this route but to get good sync, I would've had to mount a rooftop antenna with an amp... ugly and costly.

Later,
Kevin

[jesus marion joseph]

Looks like I have the same lineup available:

WBZ-DT ( CBS )
DTV Ch(s): 30.1
Main Format: 1080i More Information
WCVB-DT ( ABC )
DTV Ch(s): 20
More Information
WFXT-DT ( FOX )
DTV Ch(s): 31
More Information
WGBH-DT ( PBS )
Multicasting: Yes DTV Ch(s): 19.2
Main Format: 1080i More Information
WGBX-DT ( PBS )
Multicasting: Yes DTV Ch(s): 19.1
Main Format: 480i More Information
WHDH-DT ( NBC )
DTV Ch(s): 42
More Information
WLVI-DT ( WB )
DTV Ch(s): 41
More Information
WMUR-DT ( ABC )
DTV Ch(s): 59
More Information
WNEU-DT ( Telemundo )
DTV Ch(s): 34
Main Format: Telemundo More Information
WSBK-DT ( UPN )
DTV Ch(s): 39.1
Main Format: 1080i More Information
WUTF-DT ( Ind. )
DTV Ch(s): 23

So, if I were to obtain one of these receivers, but didn't want "rabbit ears" and an amplifier, would I order HD from my local cable company (please excuse me if I sound dence on this subject)? Comcast is my local cable provider, so I wouls guess they have HDTV available?

[jazzfiend]

No, Comcast will provide their HDTV receiver, and they charge only $5 additional per month.

If you go this route, however, you're limited to the very few HD channels they currently offer.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Comcast's HDTV offerings are actually better than Adelphia's up here in NH. Comcast actually has CBS... I'd love to see CSI in HD. I'm sure if you called Comcast, they'll give you the whole scoop. My HD package is an extra $7.95/month and it includes a Scientific Atlanta 3250HD. Oh yeah, it also includes "Music Choice", a pretty nice music package.

A quick check of the AVS Forums shows that Comcast uses either the Motorola DCT-6200/5100 or the Scientific Atlanta 3100HD (which is the older sibling to the 3250HD). BTW, all three of these boxes have DVI options but there is nothing saying it will be active... it's all up to the cable company. As I said, DVI is only for real vid-heads or guys like me who just have to have the latest shit.

JMJ, I think I read where you're out on the Cape? Historically, has the Cape had good luck receiving channel 38 over the air with an antenna? If you can get WSBK-38 good, you should be able to get almost all of these stations with an over-the-air (OTA) box like the Samsung SIR-T151, with the exception of WLVI-56, which seems to be broadcast with a walkie-talkie.

I should repeat that any TV can receive these HDTV signals but will only display them at standard resolution. However, if the show is broadcast in high definition, it will be letterboxed on a standard 4:3 aspect ratio TV. I don't have a problem with that because my set is 36" diagonal. Even letterboxed I get about 34" diag. I didn't buy a 16:9 set because I hate those "stretched" and "zoomed" pictures I see at the stores. Ever see one? Everyone looks short and fat or tall and skinny. It's like a house of mirrors.

Later,
Kevin

[jesus marion joseph]

I can barely get WBZ radio in my car, let alone WSBK on a standalone antenna. Maybe I should go the Comcast route.

[Enforcer]

If a station broadcasts in HD, then any cable provider who carries that station makes it possible to receive the HD broadcast, right? I mean, you mentioned CBS. I get CBS on cable, of course. But is there a chance my provider doesn't pass it to me in HD? I have Comcast so CBS is not the issue, but is that how it works?

Larry

[Chris D]

Originally posted by Larry Nagel
If a station broadcasts in HD, then any cable provider who carries that station makes it possible to receive the HD broadcast, right? I mean, you mentioned CBS. I get CBS on cable, of course. But is there a chance my provider doesn't pass it to me in HD? I have Comcast so CBS is not the issue, but is that how it works?

Larry

Not necessarily. The stations broadcasting in HD are actually broadcasting on two signals, one standard-def, one high-def. They are at different frequencies. You won't get digital transmission through your cable operator without a significant upgrade in service. And digital cable is NOT the same as HD cable. Digital cable can offer HD signals, but just having "digital cable" does not guarantee an HD signal.
The providers are all over the map.

Kevin,
The "stretch to fit" is not endemic to widescreen sets. It's a setting that can be turned on or off. When turned off, one gets a "side-letterboxed" 4-3 picture on non-widescreen broadcasts.

[Enforcer]

Originally posted by Chris D
Not necessarily. The stations broadcasting in HD are actually broadcasting on two signals, one standard-def, one high-def. They are at different frequencies. You won't get digital transmission through your cable operator without a significant upgrade in service. And digital cable is NOT the same as HD cable. Digital cable can offer HD signals, but just having "digital cable" does not guarantee an HD signal.
The providers are all over the map.

OK, Chris. Here's my question. If ESPN says they're broadcasting a hockey game in HD and I buy the hardware and get the HD service from Comcast, I would be really bummed to find out that in my part of the country they don't send me the HD signal for that station. Is that a possibility?

Larry

[Chris D]

It depends on Comcast. There's always a possibility they don't offer something. I would check to make sure ESPN HD is part of their program offerings before signing up.

[Ron Thorne]

Patti and I don't have HDTV, but just made a quantum leap forward at Christmas by purchasing a very nice Toshiba 24" true flat screen television and trading our analog cable converter box in for a digital model. Our cable provider made it a no-brainer by raising the monthly cost of analog service to exactly the same level as digital. The difference in those two changes alone is startling. And, of course, with the addition of a new Toshiba DVD player which is wired to our stereo stystem, powered by our new Cambridge Audio integrated amplifier, we're in heaven, especially when viewing anything musical. Now we have over 30 digital music channels we never had before, too.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Originally posted by Larry Nagel
OK, Chris. Here's my question. If ESPN says they're broadcasting a hockey game in HD and I buy the hardware and get the HD service from Comcast, I would be really bummed to find out that in my part of the country they don't send me the HD signal for that station. Is that a possibility?

Larry

Larry, first off, I got some bad news: most of the people over on the AVS forum are up in arms over ESPN's HD broadcasts. They supposedly stink.

As for your question, Chris summed it up well, but taking it a step up the high tech chain, basically, the HD signal requires more bandwidth than the standard signal. Even though it is technically broadcasting 1's & 0's, it still requires more bandwidth per channel than most cable systems can handle. If your cable system upgraded to offer digital cable, then chances are, they also offer HD because most of the changes they make to offer digital are needed for HD.

I'd check Comcast. They seem to have a lot of satisfied customers. This doesn't mean there aren't problems (like the supposed ESPN-HD picture quality).

I'd recommend perusing that AVS forum a bit. As with any web forum, skip the loony bin posts and you may find some useful information, particularly if you're thinking about OTA HDTV. OTA brings in the more esoteric stuff... what's old is new again... like best mounting angle, best LNA, what type of array to use, etc. It brings back memories when I read these people talking about installing antenna rotors.

BTW, the funniest posts are the people who proclaim (in a mighty voice) "Digital TV can never top analog!" Sounds sooooo familiar. In fact, the similarities between the vid heads and audio fanatics are scary. Home theater is just blurring the lines even more.

Funny about home theater & audio... I'm going to pick up a pair of B&W 600 S3's for my suuround channels this weekend.

Later,
Kevin

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I've got to bring this thread up again just to update what's going on in the world of HDTV.

Since I started this thread, the HD channels on Adelphia in my area has expanded and is now:
704 WBZ (CBS) HD
707 WHDH (NBC) HD
709 WMUR (ABC) HD
711 WENH (PBS) HD
725 WFXT (FOX) HD
750 HD HBO (Pay)
751 HD SHOWTIME (Pay)
752 HD STARZ (Pay)
753 HD CINEMAX (Pay)
770 HD NET
771 HD NET MOVIES
772 ESPN HD
773 NESN HD - Red Sox/Bruins sports channel
774 INHD1 iNDemand
775 INHD2 iNDemand HD 2

I don't have any of the pay channels but all the rest come in for an extra $7.95 per month (the rental cost of the HD box). I have to say, this is one of the best entertainment values I've ever gotten. The HD Net channels are great. HD Net Movies is just like a pay channel just with older movies stuck on all the time. I love INHD's programming. All HD, all the time.

Also since I started this thread, ESPN has converted their HD broadcasts to a 720P signal, the same as their parent company, ABC. I watched the Red Sox/Yankees game on ESPN-HD the other night... Wow! Although I have to say, NESN's HD broadcasts (at 1080i) look even better to my eyes but still... baseball may even beat hockey as the ultimate viewing pleasure in HD. Maybe once the NFL kicks off and I get to see the Patriots in HD, I'll change my opinion again. I hope.

I'll say it again: Anyone who can afford the small added expense to got this route just has to do this! The picture is stunning. Absolutely stunning.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I would love to watch CSI in HD. I now do. The difference is night & day. It really is incredible.

Later,
Kevin

[clinthopson]

We have a 14 year old 27" Sony hooked up to the Dish network. The picture's pretty damned good on the Dish.

When that old Sony bites the dust, we'll get the HD box, in fact, if the old thing holds out for a couple more years, I think that's all that will be available.

I know one thing for sure, we won't be getting a plasma, projection or lcd set. We don't need anything much bigger than we have now, so we'll stick to the tube set. Better picture and much more reliable, from what I've heard.

[Chris D]

That would be wise, clint.
Plasmas are at high risk for burn in, at least at this point in time.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Chris D

That would be wise, clint.
Plasmas are at high risk for burn in, at least at this point in time.

I have an LCD RPTV that has no burn in risk. DLP's are the same. You can play PS2 and leave the TV on pause all day with no deleterious effects.

I'm not sure why anybody would buy a Plasma unless they have both a big budget and a tiny space.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I just found out that NBC is using their HD channel for 'round the clock coverage of the Olympics! It starts at 6:00 AM today and seems to go all day and into the night. I just put it on and it's yesterday's opening snoozefest, the opening ceremonies. Maybe it'll go live later this morning.

I had the chance to compare multiple HD broadcasts side-by-side the other night when NESN-HD and INHD both covered the Red Sox. I was expecting identical pictures. It's digital right? Well, apparently, each broadcast has it's own producer to change the cettings to his/her preferences. I would say that the producer for INHD had never been to Fenway Park... the dirt at Fenway is reddish-brown (which NESN's broadcast nailed perfectly). INHD's picture had the dirt looking like, well, brown dirt. I guess INHD didn't expect to have red dirt in Boston.

Later,
Kevin

[Deke]

I saw a demo of HDTV over a decade ago, and decided that the next TV upgrade would have to follow that path, along with widescreen, natch. So you can imagine exactly how pissed off I am right now that when we finally switch over to total digtal in 2010, HDTV will be under consideration for the next big format change.

Incidentally, anyone want to know the downside of digital? If you don't get a good picture, you get no picture. I live in a weird little crook at the bottom of a hill. I can pick up London's radio stations up to about 10 yards from my front door, and pick them up again about 20 yards further on. Our neighbours can pick up regional TV from surrounding areas, we just get what we're supposed to get, and... Despite living only about 2 miles from the Tx tower, I can't receive digital. I've got the box, it's just not getting enough signal to decode it.

I'm planning on using this as an excuse to stop watching TV.

[Gordon B]

HDTV Program Guide

I highly recommend the HR10-250 for anybody with High def capabilites who gets his signal from Directv. I just got mine hooked up a couple of weeks ago. It has a 250 GB hard drive, can record two shows at the same time in any combination of standard or high definition. I've set it up to record all NBC Olympic blocks that include swimming in high def. I'm greatly looking forward to using Tivo for the Olympics to cut through the commercials and human interest crap so that I can watch the events and not stay in front of the TV all day.

The nice thing about Directv Tivos is that they function as both a digital receiver to pull in the signal and a recorder. The 30 sec skip and 8 second reverse buttons make commercial skipping practically painless.

[Coda]

HDTV is downstreamed to your home. You're currently experiencing only about half the possible quality that HD will one day become. This is still about 5-10 years away. I believe that it's a bandwidth issue.

If you want the 'best' HD available today, see http://voom.com

I think they are a subsidiary of Comcast, but not positive.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Originally Posted by Coda

HDTV is downstreamed to your home. You're currently experiencing only about half the possible quality that HD will one day become. This is still about 5-10 years away. I believe that it's a bandwidth issue.

This is a bit of an issue (as I understand) for DirecTV customers. Supposedly, their picture suffers because DTV compresses the HD signal to send it over the satellite. However, there is much less compression over cable so the picture is less degraded. Over-the-air is obviously the best way to go. However, I searched around and found that, even with an amplified rooftop antenna, I was unlikely to be able to receive all of the channels I want. Adelphia's "limited" bandwidth HD has turned out to be an acceptable way for me to experience a major upgrade in my television watching.

Originally Posted by Coda

If you want the 'best' HD available today, see http://voom.com

I think they are a subsidiary of Comcast, but not positive.

A lot of people are screaming mad at Voom. From what I've read over on the AVS forums, this company is not delivering on the promises. Many people are not getting anywhere near the picture quality that was supposed to be.

For some reason, NBC's HD channel is repeating the opening ceremonies all day today. How many times do they think I need to see this?? I guess it's off C-NBC for the Germany/Cuba women's volleyball match.

Later,
Kevin

[jesus marion joseph]

Resurrected thread. I've been looking at HD TVs for the last week or so. We're selling our current digs and moving into a newly constructed house in December (if all goes relatively well). I've got a large room over the garage in the new house for a TV, and there's enough space to get a large TV. If all goes well with the sale of the curent house, there will be enough $$ to splurge on a new HDTV.

So, this weekend I went on an initial recon mission to scope out technology and prices. I looked at DLP, LCD and plasma. First off, I have to say one thing about these TVs: holy shit are they expensive!! Even more than I thought they would be. We recently bought a 13" LCD at Marshalls, which is currently in our bedroom, but will be in the kitchen at the new house. That one cost more than my 27" Sony CRT that's in my current den, but what a picture.

Anyway, after looking at about 50 TVs, my head was spinning. The DLPs seem to be relatively cheaper than their LCD counterparts, but suffer from picture degradation when viewed from an angle. I read about some second-gen DLP, but am not sure if this shortcoming is addressed by the newer technology. Anybody got any info on this? Inevitably, there will be some angled viewing seats in my new TV room, so I don't want to spend a lot of dough and be less than satisfied with the end product.

Also, should I be hung up on a built-in HD receiver, or will I still get satisfactory results from a seperate receiver and an HD-ready TV?

Last question: it seems that the internet sellers sell Mack warranties with their TVs. ANybody have any experience dealing with Mack service on their warranties?

[Vince Kargatis]

Originally Posted by jesus marion joseph

The DLPs seem to be relatively cheaper than their LCD counterparts, but suffer from picture degradation when viewed from an angle.

Huh, I was under the opposite impression, actually. I don't notice significant off-angle issues with my DLP set. Are you comparing DLP with LCD-projection?

[Chris D]

I would NOT get a built-in HD receiver, jmj. There's so much potential that hasn't been tapped, and if you get an outboard receiver, you can upgrade that when the tech catches up and not have to get a new monitor.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally Posted by Vince Kargatis

Huh, I was under the opposite impression, actually. I don't notice significant off-angle issues with my DLP set. Are you comparing DLP with LCD-projection?

Maybe degradation is the wrong word, but the DLP sets I've seen all display a tendancy to "darken" when you view the screen from an angle greater than about 45 degrees or so. The LCD screens seem very bright from any angle from which you can still see the screen. The plasma screens seem even better in this regard, but they're horrifically expensive.

Chris D.: excellent point. Gold Star, and an invitation to watch any of our fine professional New England teams beat the Chicago team of your choice after my TV room is all set up.

[Deke]

Originally Posted by jesus marion joseph

Resurrected thread. I've been looking at HD TVs for the last week or so. We're selling our current digs and moving into a newly constructed house in December (if all goes relatively well). I've got a large room over the garage in the new house for a TV, and there's enough space to get a large TV.

You do realise that you have to leave enough room for yourself as well?