Bang Yöur Head: The Metal Thread

Other Steve · February-21st-2004, 07:28 PM

This is something I've been considering starting up for a little while now. There appears to be a solid handful of metal enthusiasts posting here and there on the Speakeasy, and probably an even larger number of curious onlookers. But I'd also have to imagine there is a large majority that really has no use whatsoever for the music, and I feel increasingly guilty every time I go into detail about something metal-related on the WAYLT thread.

But I also have yet to find a metal discussion board where the level of discourse approaches anything I want to engage (which would be more on the level of what Phil Freeman and Jason Bivins pursue at Bagatellen). Call me a snob.

So now, I'm going to see if anyone wants to pursue some sporadic metal-related discussion here in the Alley. Nothing's off limits; classic metal is just as welcome as the latest extreme stuff. I figure we'll know pretty quickly whether there's enough interest to sustain such a thread or not.

To get things started, I'm responding here to a query from Nick that appeared in the WAYLT4 thread, after I mentioned a new Gorguts demo anthology among the things I've been listening to:

Quote:

Originally posted by Nick
Wow Steve. "...And Then Comes Lividity" was legendary. I used to like "Considered Dead" and "Erosion of Sanity" and most of their reviews mentioned how they paled in comparison to "...And Then Comes Lividity". Do you have an original casette copy? Did it ever come out on CD?

Nick, a Canadian label called Galy Records issued it on CD last year, an authorized release that brought Luc Lemay some attention while he assembles a new working band and prepares a new studio album. It also serves as an appreciation of Steve MacDonald, the drummer who killed himself in 2002.

Aside from Lividity, the disc also includes rough demos for songs from Considered Dead and Erosion of Sanity, plus two separate demo sessions for songs from Obscura, which I still think is the band's high-water mark. It ends with a 1993 live version of "Inoculated Life" from Considered Dead. Pretty cool.

Jason Bivins · February-21st-2004, 08:11 PM

Good move, Steve!

"Obscura" is the only Gorguts I have and it's never really connected too much with me. But I haven't dug it in well over a year.

So is there anyone besides me who's mightily impressed with the Mastodon record? I think it's really strong stuff. They certainly bear the trace of Today is the Day (no surprise there, since 2 of the guys emerged from TITD) but the severity of the playing reminds me of Botch with the neo-psychedelic parts removed. High praise in my book.

Oh, and I dug out Dysrhythmia's "Pretest" last week and that's holding up really well too.

Salvador Dali Lama · February-21st-2004, 08:12 PM

well, I like Mastodon. that quite possibly has a lot to do with them being kind of a local boy makes good story (in the works...) but I think they're a good band. My dear friends Hell Mach Four kind of flirt with metal at times (http://www.hellmachfour.com/) and some people consider Stinking Lizaveta, one of my favorite bands, to be "avant-metal" or whatever they call it.

other than that I'm not so into the stuff. largely because of the vocals. goddamn that shit is goofy. I'd probably really like meshuga if it wasn't for the vocals. I dig mathy-metal a lot. (mastodon again...)

so I don't know. I wouldn't call myself a metal fan, but I like some metal sometimes. I love the metal Zorn has done (leviathan from IAO and Barzel from Kristalnacht especially), painkiller, naked city etc.

moneyp · February-21st-2004, 08:39 PM

"THE ACE OF SPADES! THE ACE OF SPADES!"

That's all I got.

Nick · February-21st-2004, 10:00 PM

I was a hardcore metal-head in my teens before I discovered other kinds of music. I've really lost touch with what's out there metal wise now days though. There's just so much other shit to get caught up on. I still think it can be a really beautiful genre. Has anyone heard Athiest? They did three albums for Metal Blade in the late 80's/early 90's. The first was a fairly traditional Kreator-inspired thrash album (Piece of Time). I liked it quite a bit but the follow up, Unquestionable Presence, was spectacular. There's a pretty on-the-mark review on AMG http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p...=Abe821v7jzzha Unfortunately, I believe all their stuff is currently out of print.

vibes · February-21st-2004, 10:10 PM

Atheist was a great band. All three of their albums were actually re-released on another label a couple years ago, and I managed to pick up "Piece of Time" that way. Since I was more familiar with the Atheist of "Unquestionable Presence" and "Elements," "Piece" was a bit of a let-down.

If you like Atheist, look for Cynic's "Focus." Definitely one of the more interesting releases in the genre.

Nick · February-21st-2004, 10:16 PM

Awesome! I thought they were all long out of print. Yeah Focus was real cool too. Have you ever heard "Spheres" by Pestilence. They were an early death metal band from Holland I believe. "Spheres" was their final album in 1993 and a real departure from the more raw early stuff. You might like it if you enjoy Athiest and Cynic. Kinda progressive with synthesizers but still real heavy.

vibes · February-21st-2004, 10:31 PM

Yes, I have "Spheres." Pestilence was actually my favorite death band, so when they broke up after they recorded "Spheres," it was pretty devastating to me. I still listen to it every now and then, along with "Testimony of the Ancients." Those two albums were definitely in my top five.

Sergio Zamora · February-21st-2004, 10:38 PM

You're all going to hell.

Pete C · February-21st-2004, 11:02 PM

Steve, what's with the umlaut?

vibes · February-21st-2004, 11:04 PM

Possibly a tribute to Motorhead, who traditionally used the umlaut in their name?

Pete C · February-21st-2004, 11:07 PM

The only Motorhead I know from is Sherwood.

So, whatever happened to Black Shabbos?

Nick · February-21st-2004, 11:37 PM

Since we're on the topic.

Top 5 Motorhead albums (though I haven't heard them all):

5. 1916
4. Motorhead
3. Orgasmatron
2. Bastards
1. Sacrifice

vibes · February-21st-2004, 11:53 PM

If you've never heard it, Sepultura did a good cover of "Orgasmatron." I think the only way to get it was to buy the CD single of "Dead Embroynic Cells." It may have been included as a bonus track elsewhere, but I think that's where I first saw it.

Nick · February-21st-2004, 11:57 PM

Yeah it appeared somewhere else too. I know I had the Sepultura cover on cd but I don't think I ever had Dead Embryonic Cells. Arise and Chaos AD were my favorite Sepultura cds. Roots didn't quite do it for me and I've never heard any of their post-Cavalera stuff.

vibes · February-22nd-2004, 12:00 AM

"Arise" and "Chaos AD" were also my favorite, and since I thought of "Orgasmatron," I thought I'd pull out all my Sepultura CD's so I could listen to them. I thought I had kept the "Dead Embryonic Cells" single, but I guess not. I do have "Roots," and while it has a few good tracks, I think they took the tribal thing a bit too far. The riffs strike me as a bit dumbed-down too, when compared with their previous few albums.

I've listened to several tracks from their post-Max work, and it doesn't do much for me. I don't like the vocals too much. I'm not a big fan of Max's new band, Soulfly, either.

Nick · February-22nd-2004, 12:05 AM

Man all this talk about metal makes me wish I wouldn't have sold my collection when I got into jazz. I think Arise was the first death-metal cd I bought. Hey vibes, you were born a year to the day before me. What's the best live metal show you've seen? I saw My Dying Bride open for Dio 6 or 7 years ago and they knocked me out. Anybody out there like doom-metal. Solitude Aeturnus, Cathedral, My Dying Bride, Candlemass, Trouble, St. Vitus?

vibes · February-22nd-2004, 12:18 AM

I've only been to a couple metal shows (concerts were forbidden growing up - my parents are very conservative and religious and did not approve), but the best show I've been to was a few years ago: The Pantera Extreme Steel tour. Morbid Angel opened up (shitty sound, unfortunately), and were followed by Skrape, Static-X, Slayer and finally Pantera. That was quite a show. Since I have almost all of Morbid Angel, Slayer and Pantera's albums, seeing all three of them in the same night was something else.

vibes · February-22nd-2004, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nick
Man all this talk about metal makes me wish I wouldn't have sold my collection when I got into jazz.

I did that once and ended up re-buying way too many CD's, so now I rarely get rid of CD's. I sold many of my death metal CD's before I went to college (like the aforementioned "Focus" and "Elements") and had a really hard time tracking them down when I wanted to buy them again, so I swore I'd never do it again. I got lucky on the Atheist CD's - They had gone out of print apparently, but I called Metal Blade directly and they sold me cutouts of "Elements" and "Unquestionable Presence," which was very cool. I listen to jazz more than anything else these days, but I'm glad I still have all of this other music to listen to when I get the urge. When you mentioned Atheist above, I decided to pull out "Unquestionable Presence" and listen to it again. It's still very impressive, a standout in the genre. Bouncing around between genres is fun - I've got Dr. Dre's "The Chronic" on right now, and had some Milt Jackson/Coleman Hawkins on before that.

Nick · February-22nd-2004, 12:25 AM

Sounds cool. I've never seen Slayer but I'd love to. My brother in law saw them a few months ago and he said they played most of 'Reign in Blood' as their encore. I bet that was awesome.

john williams · February-22nd-2004, 12:57 AM

I don't really know if my choices qualify as metal exactly but I did grow up with Black Sabbath and I still have a smallish taste for some 'metal'. However, I think my choices would be questioned by some as being "metal" and I agree with Sal that some recent stuff sounds "goofy", particularly the Cookie Monster 'singing' of some 'vocalists.'

Some songs I've liked over the years.

Jesus Christ Pose : Soundgarden
Sober : Tool
N.W.O : Ministry
Just One Fix : Ministry
T.V. II : Ministry
Nursing Home : Ministry
10/10 : Ministry
Three Days : Jane's Addiction
22 going on 23 : Butthole Surfers
P.S.Y : Butthole Surfers
Pink Maggit : The Deftones
You'd Better Believe It : Hawkwind
The Red and the Black : Blue Oyster Cult
Astronomy : Blue Oyster Cult

Albums

Tool : Lateralus, Undertow
Ministry : Psalm 69, Dark Side of the Spoon (a few tracks salvage an otherwise mediocre album)
Butthole Surfers : Rembrant Pussyhorse, Locust Abortion Technician, Hairway to Steven
Jane's Addiction : Ritual de lo Habitual, Nothing's Shocking
Black Sabbath : Paranoid
A Perfect Circle : Thirteenth Step, Mer de Noms
Tomahawk : Tomahawk, Mit Gas
Fantomas : Delerium Cordia

Salvador Dali Lama · February-22nd-2004, 01:45 AM

yeah, there's far too much kitsch in metal for me. I find it very difficult to take the music seriously with all that cheesy "evil."

tool too, I've dug some tool songs quite a bit - then I open up the cd, and what's all this silly crap? it just kills the music for me. I really don't like the assumed personas of bands that well.... assume personas.

lazarus · February-22nd-2004, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Salvador Dali Lama
yeah, there's far too much kitsch in metal for me. I find it very difficult to take the music seriously with all that cheesy "evil."

I agree!
I have been listening a lot to heavy rock through the years but today I find it very hard to stand all these satanist and death-cult nonsense.

JBW, I was listening to Ministry in late 80´s and early 90´s. "The Land of Rape and Honey", "The Mind Is a Terrible Thing to Taste" and "Psalm 69" were big favorites. I also dug the live video " In Case You Didn't Feel Like Showing Up" very much.

Sergio Zamora · February-22nd-2004, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lazarus
I agree!
I have been listening a lot to heavy rock through the years but today I find it very hard to stand all these satanist and death-cult nonsense.

I figured everybody in Sweden was in a satanist death metal band.

Quote:

JBW, I was listening to Ministry in late 80´s and early 90´s. "The Land of Rape and Honey", "The Mind Is a Terrible Thing to Taste" and "Psalm 69" were big favorites. I also dug the live video " In Case You Didn't Feel Like Showing Up" very much.

Me too, and I didn't even like metal. Though I didn't really think of them as metal - more like guitar-driven industrial. Psalm 69 was the first cd I bought (prior to which I only bought cassettes)

Jesus built my hot rod, baby!

lazarus · February-22nd-2004, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
I figured everybody in Sweden was in a satanist death metal band.

Yes! Of course! Everybody I know plays in death metal bands.
I´m the only swede I know of not doing that. I guess you can figure how hard my life must be in this country with death metal everywhere.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
Me too, and I didn't even like metal. Though I didn't really think of them as metal - more like guitar-driven industrial. Psalm 69 was the first cd I bought (prior to which I only bought cassettes)

Jesus built my hot rod, baby!

Maybe I´m messing up the genres. I guess you´re right that Ministry just like Nine Inch Nails are more industrial than metal. I think I also can hear influences from Stooges, Dead Kennedys and punk.

I grow up and listened to the first proto-metal groups like Black Sabbath, Blue Cheer, Captain Beyond and Led Zeppelin. I still like to listen to these groups but maybe Black Sabbath is the only one of these groups that is a real heavy metal group, I don´t know.

Heavy metal is soooo macho! It feels a little bit annoying. Anybody else feel that way?

Jason Bivins · February-22nd-2004, 10:45 AM

Laz, absolutely. Like any genre (or rather, constellation of styles that comprises a genre) there is a tremendous amount of crap and stereotypes to wade through. But there is more than enough to compensate, I think.

By the way, for anyone interested in the "RRRRARAAAARARHGGGHHGH!!!!" style of vocals (that's a transcription, by the way), Phil Freeman just wrote a dandy little rant over at Bagatellen. It's entitled "Will You Please Be Quiet, Please" (and no, it has nothing to do with Raymond Carver).

Me, I tend to favor the math-y, hardcore-y metal myself, though not to the total exclusion of death, doom, stoner, whatever.

I think the best multi-band metal bill I saw was back in '89 at the Brixton Academy in London: King's X, S.O.D., Suicidal Tendencies, Anthrax. Very fun show.

Oh yeah, and I have this metal guy in one of my classes right now. He always freaks out when I know the bands whose t-shirts he wears (I rocked his world by ranking Opeth albums on the first day of class).

frankiepop · February-22nd-2004, 11:30 AM

Quote:

I figured everybody in Sweden was in a satanist death metal band.

my lord, too many bergman movies.................

my favorite thrasher band (DO THEY QUALIFY?????)

HUSKER DU, baby.............love the thrash on 'zen arcade' with the long jam finish...5 stars!

i liked da butthole surfers...that ive heard....but i never could get passed that name...what a label to put on oneself....

has anybody heard or know if there is a butthole surfer cd with a cover of the flintstone theme...

i think it was the buttholes (may have been the asscracks)??? anyways it was outrageous cd i heard at a cd shop once..............

frankiepop · February-22nd-2004, 11:35 AM

a good cover...

that i think Lemme would approve of:

Du Huskers - The Twin Cities Replay Zen Arcade - Tribute

steve(thelil) · February-22nd-2004, 11:37 AM

You confuse the Butthole Surfers with the Ass Cracks and call yourself a metalhead?

(Aren't the Butthole's more punk than metal?)

frankiepop · February-22nd-2004, 11:46 AM

listen u.... lil ..........mahareshi mutha f**Ker

i never called myself anything, except a helluva lot smarter than you....

it's sunday am...dont u have a buncha acid heads or something to minister to....isnt there an underaged .........go take a flying lesson...........