Thank You, Rudy Van Gelder

[GoodSpeak]

Throughout my years on JazzCorner, Jazz Central Station and JazzOnLine I have been mightily critical of the record company's empty suits who summarily delete our recorded Jazz history. Not caring and only seeing the dollar sign.

Now, I want to set the record straight and give some props to the man who obviously still gives a damn about real Jazz: Rudy Van Gelder.

There are so many great Jazz CDs out there on the market we all can purchase, that it is to stagger the imagination. A few years ago, I figured Straight Ahead Jazz was just dead in the water. Nobody was producing the best of the best. NObody.

But Rudy heard the "call" and ran with it.

Today, we have hundreds of titles to choose from...and all because a guy named Rudy cared enough to do something about it.


I am forever in your debt, Rudy....and I will always be a supporter of anything you decide to do.







I just wanted to thank you.


TimMc

[crawjo]

Amen to all that, Goody. The RVG Remaster Series is a towering achievement, in my opinion. The music sounds great, the design is beautiful, and the price is affordable. Thanks Rudy, and thanks Blue Note, for reissuing all these important albums with this stunning sound.

[Chazro]

Wazzup Fellas!

I got into Jazz in the '70's with the CTI recordings that RVG was involved with. It wasn't until much later in my Jazz journey that I realized that he was such a major player. The thing is this, as much as I loved a lot of the CTI recordings I never felt they were recorded too well. His earlier Blue Note recordings have such amazing sonics but some of the CTI stuff was just awful. A lot of Billy Cobham's best work is buried in the mixes and the string and brass sections sounded obviously overdubbed. When CD's 1st came out in the 80's CTI resurfaced briefly and most of those recordings weren't too hot sonically either.

I believe I read somewhere that his hearing was impaired during the CTI days which might explain the difference in sound quality from the Blue Note's vs. the CTI's. Regardless, the man's undeniably a legend.

[Gentle Giant]

Is there a more critical and inflential non-player in the history of the music?

What's so amazing is his longevitity and willingness to take on different projects; he did a beautiful job on the Boston-based Either/Orchestra's Half Life of Reason several years ago, which ran the gamut from a Duke arrangement to a scorching cover of King Crimson's Red.

I think the CTI sound is what Creed Taylor wanted. He was out to make smooth, polished albums aimed beyond the jazz borders.

[J.A.W.]

I hate to spoil the fun, but I don't like RVGs or their Japanese equivalents (JRVGS) at all. Many - if not most - (J)RVGs have a very narrow soundstage and sound very aggressive to my ears; it's as if the mid and high frequencies are "pumped up", as a member of another board once said in an e-mail to me. On my Mark Levinson-fed electrostatics with subwoofer most (J)RVGs sound as if they were recorded in the bathroom. They give me headaches and that's the last thing I want when I'm listening to music.

I prefer the older Japanese Blue Note CD reissues, known to some as "TOCJs"; OK, they're flawed, with the excessive stereo separation of many of the albums (like the old LPs), and they're probably heavily equalized, but to me they sound much more musical than the (J)RVGs and they're true sound reproductions of the 1950s and 1960s LPs.

Just my $0.02...

[Chris D]

Rudy also engineered a lot of sessions for Prestige and related labels.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally posted by J.A.W.

Just my $0.02...

What's that in euros?

[J.A.W.]

Originally posted by Gentle Giant
What's that in euros?

Err, about €0.0163

Originally posted by Chris D
Rudy also engineered a lot of sessions for Prestige and related labels.

Yes, I did all my prestige sessions at Rudy, but I must confess that I never was wild about the sound--too cavernous, IMO.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally posted by GoodSpeak
But Rudy heard the "call" and ran with it.

Today, we have hundreds of titles to choose from...and all because a guy named Rudy cared enough to do something about it.

I certainly appreciate Van Gelder's contributions, but other than getting paid for remastering recordings, what influence did he have in getting them reissued?

I mean, he's a sound engineer, right? Or am I missing something?

[Tanager]

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
I certainly appreciate Van Gelder's contributions, but other than getting paid for remastering recordings, what influence did he have in getting them reissued?

I mean, he's a sound engineer, right? Or am I missing something?

I would think that someone like Michael Cuscuna deserves as much praise, if not more, for the reissue riches. BWTFDIK?

[shrugs]

Originally posted by Tanager
I would think that someone like Michael Cuscuna deserves as much praise, if not more, for the reissue riches. BWTFDIK?

It should also be pointed out that there were/are a lot of sessions(someone with better memory can help me with specifics) where Cuscuna felt(and I believe Alfred Lion) the results were less than satisfactory. Some of these have been released/reissued due to the diligence of music lovers on the now defunct BN BBS.
Not to mention the constant pleading by fans to reissue titles that had gone OOP or were only available in Mosaic sets.

[jazzy mary]

Originally posted by Sergio Zamora
I certainly appreciate Van Gelder's contributions, but other than getting paid for remastering recordings, what influence did he have in getting them reissued?

I mean, he's a sound engineer, right? Or am I missing something?

That's exactly what I was thinking, Sergio.

[Dmitry]

Originally posted by J.A.W.
I hate to spoil the fun, but I don't like RVGs or their Japanese equivalents (JRVGS) at all.

Neither do I [for the most part].

The famous Blue Note sound is as much and more due to Alfred Lion's involvement in the studio as Van Gelder's recording the sessions. He says so himself.
To me he's just another engineer who happened to record a lot of jazz sessions. I think there were/are more talented professionals in the sound-booths.
That being said, thank God he was around when Alfred Lion was looking for a studio. He must have been RVG's biggest client back in the day.

[GoodSpeak]

My understanding is he bankrolled/produced the whole remaster deal.

I still submit, without his foresight, there would be precious little out there for us to buy. Besides, RVG Studios is owned and operated by Van Gelder is it not?

I think this makes him more than just a sound guy.


Now I ask you: If Michael Cuscuna deserves the props, why isn't his name on the remasters?

[Pete C]

Originally posted by GoodSpeak
My understanding is he bankrolled/produced the whole remaster deal.

I still submit, without his foresight, there would be precious little out there for us to buy. Besides, RVG Studios is owned and operated by Van Gelder is it not?

I think this makes him more than just a sound guy.


Now I ask you: If Michael Cuscuna deserves the props, why isn't his name on the remasters?

Where did you get the information that he bankrolled the remasters? It doesn't make sense.

As for your second assertion, he was a sound guy whose talents and studios were hired by the record companies and their producers. He was a great sound guy, but he was not a producer or A&R guy. I don't understand what you mean by there would be precious little to buy. He did not initiate the projects, he did not produce the albums, and he was not involved in running a record company.

Van Gelder's name is on the remasters because he did the most of the original sessions as well as the remasters, and he is a legend in the jazz community. His name is a saleable commodity, and Blue Note knows it. Malcolm Addey does great remastering too, but you don't see him getting his name on a series.

Producers and execs don't get their name on the album, though some, like Joel Dorn and Keepnews won't let you forget how important they think they are.

If Rudy had decided to return to his dental equipment business, Blue Note and Prestige would have found another studio and all those albums would have been made anyway. In recent years, there has been an odd hero worship aimed at Blue Note and anyone connected with it. I am not denying that much of it is deserved, but it has taken on a life of its own. Unfortunately, all that attention has obscured many equally laudatory efforts by other labels and engineers.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Pete C
Van Gelder's name is on the remasters because he did the most of the original sessions as well as the remasters, and he is a legend in the jazz community.

And the problem with this would be...?

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Chris A
If Rudy had decided to return to his dental equipment business, Blue Note and Prestige would have found another studio and all those albums would have been made anyway. In recent years, there has been an odd hero worship aimed at Blue Note and anyone connected with it. I am not denying that much of it is deserved, but it has taken on a life of its own. Unfortunately, all that attention has obscured many equally laudatory efforts by other labels and engineers.

Based upon my first post... there is no evidence to support this claim.


Nothing was availble on CD and NObody was doing what RVG did.


Why can't you guys just give the man his due with out all this needless palaver?

[Pete C]

Originally posted by GoodSpeak
Based upon my first post... there is no evidence to support this claim.

Your research methodology is impressive.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Pete C
Your research methodology is impressive.

Still waiting for the contrary evidence...


No evidence, no case. And my point flows to the Affirmative.

[crawjo]

I have no doubt that Blue Note and Prestige would have put out their music regardless, but the fact of the matter is that RVG has done a lot of the sound work behind some of jazz's greatest albums, as well as the remasters. I don't know enough to compare him to any other sound guy, I just know that I really like the RVG Series. I understand others have a different opinion, but I think the music has a very bright, crisp quality to it, and to the extent that Van Gelder is responsible for that sound, I thin he deserves the credit Goody gave him by starting this thread.

[GoodSpeak]

Thanks, Crawjo.

I was just trying to give it up for somebody who actually did something to preserve our Jazz heritage, that's all.

For some reason this is a problem.

I appreciate the support...and I owe you one.

[Dmitry]

Originally posted by Chris A
If Rudy had decided to return to his dental equipment business...

He made eye-glasses, not false teeth.

[GoodSpeak]

Originally posted by Dmitry
He made eye-glasses, not false teeth.

And owned a studio.

[Dmitry]

Originally posted by GoodSpeak
And owned a studio.

Good move. That's what I would do.

Originally posted by Dmitry
He made eye-glasses, not false teeth.

Thanks for correcting me, Dmitry. Of course, his field was optometry, not dentistry.

[Dmitry]

Originally posted by Chris A
Thanks for correcting me, Dmitry. Of course, his field was optometry, not dentistry.

I think Sidney Bechet's brother was a dentist and made Bunk Johnson some new teeth.
Of course, Miles's father too. Any others? ..

[Pete C]

While we're at it, how about jazz podiatrists?