I'm goin' South

[Dr Dave]

Every once in a while my sleepy little world revs up. This is one of those times. Lucy and I went to Asheville North Carolina to visit and loved it so much we decided to move there. We came back, put our house on the market, and sold it in one day. I guess the Boston real estate market is as hot as everybody says it is. Anyway, we have to be out by May 18, and we don't have a place to live in Asheville. So we're going back down on Wednesday to look at more houses (we went last week, too) and maybe rental properties. And you wouldn't believe how much rigamarole and money will have to be expended on moving two cats from Boston to Asheville.

Why we did it:
1. Weather. It's nice down there.
2. Money. Cost of living is 30 percent lower.
3. Social issues. Boston is a tough town to make friends in. Our best friends are still our buddies from when we lived on the Cape. We want to live in a place where people are a little less busy and a little more open.
4. Aesthetics. Boston is still the coolest city in the United States (which is to say, in my case, the most "European" city.) But Asheville is flat-out beautiful. The downtown is like an architecture museum--all these art deco buildings that were left standing out of neglect and are now all gussied up and looking great again.

I'm going to miss working at Marty's, but I'm confident I'll find another wine gig in Asheville.

[Tanager]

Congrats - Asheville might just be the best city in NC...if not, it's near the top. If you are into outdoor activities, then you are in heaven - Asheville is a hiking/biking/whitewater mecca. And you're right about the downtown - it's great, walkable, and full of little shops and restaurants that are fabulous to explore. Unlike the Eastern part of the state, you actually get real Winters on a consistent basis (i.e. "snow"), but it's still a lot milder than where you're coming from.

[tippy]

Dave, cool. Good friends of mine moved somewhat recently to Charlotte from San Francisco for a job transfer, I think their reviews are a little mixed--one thing that makes them apart is that they don't go to church and I think they are a little hurt for friends--in San Francisco they were the social hub. But Asheville is an arts community isn't it and probably a lot nicer place to be. Good luck to you!

(I have to move my cats into town for a couple nights starting tonight to get my apartment painted--they are NOT going to be happy campers...it's a bit nervewracking just over a short distance.)

[Brian Olewnick]

Well, I guess the likelihood of Dr. Dave making a hang just went from 1 in 1000 to 1 in several million.....

Best of luck!

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Dave, April Fools was Thursday! You are kidding, right? Man, we haven't gotten together in a while and now you're going down south? Damn, I'm bummed.

Be warned that my parents winter down in Myrtle Beach every winter and they complain mightily about the laid back attitude down there, particularly when it comes to service-related stuff like the mail. Of course, my parents are Yankees all the way so I always take what they say with a grain of salt. The way they talk, everyone in a government job is named 'Bubba' and walks around on his knuckles. They also claim that everyone in a service position works in slow motion. I think they stereotype everyone down there. I'll be curious to see what Dave thinks. After living in the hustle and bustle of Boston, maybe he'll agree with them.

Later,
Kevin

[hornplayer]

I'm sure you will find a wine gig in Asheville.... and it IS a beautiful place. My Aunt lived the last 15 years of her life there...

I have friends who moved from here to Hilton head a few years ago, and they go all the way to Savannah to the MD, Dentist, etc.... in a search for quality care....

I'll be in Boston May 7th for the WineSisters fund raiser at BCAE.

but I'll come visit.......

[bluenoter]

Dave--

Present-day Southerners may sneer, but these things struck me when I lived in NC and SC years ago:

Q&A

Q. What is the polite negative response to questions of the form "Do you have the time?" and "Do you have an extra box?"?

A. "Gee, no, I sure don't." (The "gee" is optional. The "sure" is mandatory.)

Q. What do you do when you want to stop using an overhead lighting fixture or a lamp?

A. You "cut off the light" (or "cut out the light"). (That's the expression.)

Q. What can you say to express uncertainty when asked questions of the form "Can you work overtime next Wednesday?"?

A. "I might could."

[Dr Dave]

Actually, Brian, the likelihood of my attending a Hang in NYC has just increased. I'll have the time and the wherewithal, which I did not before.

Kevin: I can't tell whether Southerners are slow because they're paid less, or paid less because they're slow. I myself plan to slow down some.

Tippy: There's a Billy Graham Freeway in Asheville, so I know I'm going into the Bible Belt. And I think you're correct about the "arts" scene, although it seems to me to mostly be old hippies who couldn't make it anywhere else, but then I'm naturally cruel when it comes to this type of judgment.

Anyway, I figure better weather is a fair tradeoff for daily dealings with the Saved. And who knows, maybe I'll see about joining the choir. I do love me some gospel music (see, June, I'm picking up the local patois already...).

[bluenoter]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

(see, June, I'm picking up the local patois already...)

June was here too, but I'll bet you got us mixed up again. Hornplayer is dynamic, knowledgeable, and talented. Bluenoter is . . . Rita.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

Congratulations, David. The Asheville area is beautiful................

[Pete C]

June is busting out all over.

[Dr Dave]

Rita. Rita. What a mook I am. Sorry.

[Jimmy Cantiello]

BTW, mooks are not allowed in Asheville..........

[graypencil]

Good Luck on yer move Doc D ..

I know when my late wife Kathy and I pulled up outta Dallas and moved to NW WA, we never regretted the move ..

( and weather was a big factor in our relocation as well ..just the reverse kind ..we wanted much cooler and luss humid with mountains, water and good sea food and a small town ..and in Bellingham we found them all!

I hope your kitties are crate trained

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Cantiello

BTW, mooks are not allowed in Asheville..........

Watch you mouth, I send Johnny Boy after you...

[Tanager]

A few things:

Asheville is nothing like Charlotte. They're as different as night and day. Not necessarily better/worse (since that really depends in the end on what you want out of a city), just different.

FWIW, "the South" is a lot more diverse place in terms of culture and atmosphere than most folks realize. There's a world of difference between the NC mountains, the SC low country, and Atlanta, for example. So neither Charlotte nor Myrtle Beach are really valid indicators of what to expect in Asheville. I really don't much care for Myrtle Beach at all myself, there are much nicer coastal cities in both NC and SC.

Rita: Hah-hah. I hope you copied and pasted that from somewhere, b/c if you really hold those stereotypes, well, that says more about you, etc. etc.

Dave, I have no idea how "valid" the arts community is in Asheville, at least not to the extent that I know enough to judge such things, but I've *heard* it's pretty good in the handiworks/crafts area. As for the Bible Belt atmosphere, Asheville is supposed to be pretty diverse in that area, and it is a college town, which probably helps. But I am surprised that people had trouble making friends outside of church, Tip, b/c while this is the Bible Belt, to be sure, it's hardly as uniformly religious as the stereotypes would lead one to believe. But everyone's experience varies, I know.

[bluenoter]

Originally Posted by Tanager

Rita: Hah-hah. I hope you copied and pasted that from somewhere, b/c if you really hold those stereotypes, well, that says more about you, etc. etc.

I figured that a present-day Southerner might scoff, and I figured that it might be you, Tan. But that post was based on my repeated direct observations when living in Chapel Hill and nearby Chatham County, NC and Branchville, SC (near Orangeburg) in the early 1970s. Southern natives used those expressions, as did anyone else who picked them up. Believe me, it took me a long time to hear "I might could" without blinking.

[Tanager]

Southerners still DO use "might could." I just don't get your point. Is it (a) to underscore that there are a wide variety of different dialects in the US, and this is a feature of some of the Southern ones (there is NOT just one "Southern accent)? B/c news flash, that's not news. Or is it, as it seemed to me, to use this feature to imply that Southerners are somehow less educated and therefore less capable of producing what sounds like "correct English" (which doesn't exist anywhere but on newscasts and in newspapers and style guides)?

And the bit about cutting off the light cord is nonsense - sure, you've seen that, I'll buy it, but again, what's your point? And you are certainly smarter than to draw from that that it's some kind of cultural characteristic of the South in general. At least I hope you are.

I'm not scoffing at your points - it's just that they seem to be accompanied by an implied tongue-in-cheek condescension towards Southerners that's all too common and no less offensive for being so. FWIW, I will use "might could" on occasion.

[Dr Dave]

It's been a long time since 1973, Rita. Things change.

In fact Chapel Hill might as well be Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's a big college town, and practically everybody is from somewhere else. I heard very few Southern accents there. My mother says you don't hear the local accent until you need a plumber or an electrician.

I should also mention that many locals in Asheville are not at all happy about the influx of outsiders who have come in and tarted up their old town. They liked it sleepy. I suspect a certain undertow of homophobia, also, since it was gay men who brought downtown Asheville back to life, just as they brought Boston's South End back to life. Hell, the city of Boston ought to have an annual holiday to celebrate the achievements of the gay community in renovating Boston's housing stock and thus bolstering its tax base.

[Alastair]

Originally Posted by Tanager

"correct English" (which doesn't exist anywhere but on newscasts and in newspapers and style guides)?

I like to think that I speak "correct English".

As I always say when an American tells me that they like my accent, I don't have one.

[john williams]

Q. What can you say to express uncertainty when asked questions of the form "Can you work overtime next Wednesday?"?

A. "I might could."


I've never heard this before but have to say I love it and would suit lotsa Aussies.

How brilliantly non-committal.

[Pete C]

Tanager, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. I could give you a whole list of quaint Brooklynisms, and we're the smartest, hippest people in the country.

[shrugs]

and up North a whole group of women would be asked "Can you guys work overtime next Wednesday?"......

[bluenoter]

Originally Posted by Tanager

Southerners still DO use "might could." I just don't get your point. Is it (a) to underscore that there are a wide variety of different dialects in the US, and this is a feature of some of the Southern ones (there is NOT just one "Southern accent)? B/c news flash, that's not news. Or is it, as it seemed to me, to use this feature to imply that Southerners are somehow less educated and therefore less capable of producing what sounds like "correct English" (which doesn't exist anywhere but on newscasts and in newspapers and style guides)?

And the bit about cutting off the light cord is nonsense - sure, you've seen that, I'll buy it, but again, what's your point? And you are certainly smarter than to draw from that that it's some kind of cultural characteristic of the South in general. At least I hope you are.

I'm not scoffing at your points - it's just that they seem to be accompanied by an implied tongue-in-cheek condescension towards Southerners that's all too common and no less offensive for being so. FWIW, I will use "might could" on occasion.

Yikes! Let me start with this one, because other people might have misunderstood too: I didn't mean that Southerners extinguished lights by cutting the cord in two; I meant that they said "cut off the light"--used that expression. I'll go back and add quotation marks or otherwise edit that part.

PhDs also used the expressions that I mentioned; education level seemed to have little, if anything, to do with it. Dave is moving to NC, so I mentioned some figures of speech that struck me when I lived in NC and SC. Had he been moving to Pittsburgh instead, I might have mentioned some figures of speech that struck me when I lived in Pittsburgh, and so on.

I lived in NC for six years, then in SC for one year. I loved living in NC and disliked living in my area of SC. I don't feel particularly defensive about my attitudes.

[Edit, much later: As noted further on in the thread, I use "might could" on occasion too, and I use "No, I sure don't" all the time.]

[Dr Dave]

Pete C:

"Smatta, gotta coh?"

(What's the matter? Do you have a cold?)

"Wadjaback!"

(Get out of the way.)

And the ever-popular "Fuggeddaboudit!"

(I have made my argument and will not brook contradiction.)

[Tanager]

Originally Posted by bluenoter

Yikes! Let me start with this one, because other people might have misunderstood too: I didn't mean that Southerners extinguished lights by cutting the cord in two; I meant that they said "cut off the light"--used that expression. I'll go back and add quotation marks or otherwise edit that part.

That *does* change things considerably. If I overreacted (as Pete perhaps rightly implies), let me give you some background:

When we lived in Washington, D.C., my Mom (born and bred Belle from outside Jacksonville and then Ocala, Fla, which is more like South Georgia than Florida) came home one day in tears b/c her elementary school students (she was a math teacher) teased her relentlessly about her accent and use of (to a Southerner) common expressions like "y'all," etc. As the years went by, she did her best to rid her speech of any Southernisms, and when my Dad refused, this actually became a real bone of contention between them (I'm not kidding, screaming matches ensued) - he felt, I grew up like this, why the hell should I change, she felt, we stick out like sore thumbs and I hate being told how cute my accent is. They were both right in some ways, but I was pissed off and swore I'd never be ashamed of where my family came from (Dad's side arrived in NC in 1720). So yes, I'm more than a little touchy. Pete, I might be making a mountain out of a molehill, but I still feel that belittling Southerners as less intelligent or backwards (witness Kevin's parents' views) is a widely tolerated form of regional and cultural prejudice, and it irks me to no end. Of course, I am equally irked by ignorant yahoos from down here who perpetuate the negative characteristics which feed those stereotypes. If I never see another fucking Confederate flag again, it will be too goddamned soon.

Dave, I think you're right about the undercurrent of homophobia in Asheville. I'd heard that before.

Anyways, Rita, if I overreacted, I'm sorry, but understand, it *is* a sensitive topic for me.

[Dr Dave]

It's funny, Tanager. Northerners really do think Southerners are dumb because of their accents, and I have anecdotal evidence:

I have an old friend who was born and raised in Homer, Georgia. His father worked for Martin Marietta, and a company scholarship got him to Princeton. Later he got his MBA at Harvard. He was an industrial marketing consultant for many years. Whenever he wanted someone to think he didn't know much, he'd let that Georgia drawl into his voice. I learned that whenever he did that it meant he was about to seriously outwit somebody.

In short, you are quite correct to be sensitive about being from the South when among a group of Yankees. But you can also--as my friend did--take advantage of Northern stereotypes.

[GoodSpeak]

Dr. Dave,

My mother-in-law did just exactly what you and your wife are doing about two years ago.

She was living in Stamford, CT and the cost of living up there was just too much for her...especially since she had recently retired as a legal secretary. So she put her house up for sale, sold it within a couple weeks and moved to new digs in Concord, NC.

She says it was the best move she could have possibly imagined and for all the reasons you mentioned. Excepting, of course, for all those Carolina Panther fans during last year's Super Bowl; she was a lone voice in the din [a big Patriots fan].

You'll love it, I'm sure

TimMc

[GoodSpeak]

Tanager,

Now can you understand how we Californians feel when Easterners and Southerners try to stereotype us?

Maybe next time I fire up on some person on this BBS for saying something just as dumb about Westerners...you'll cut me some slack.

[bluenoter]

Tanager--

Thanks for supplying that background. The last thing I intended to do was perpetuate stereotypes about Southerners, suggest that they were "dumb," or disparage them in any way. But it will be helpful for me to be aware that such stereotypes, and bad feelings about them, still exist. Again, I was simply mentioning figures of speech that struck me, just as "My sister likes spinach, and so don't I" struck me when I lived in Dr Dave's current stomping grounds, the Boston area.

I grew up in Pittsburgh and still use a lot more than I realize of the local dialect, Pittsburghese.

Dr Dave--

When I lived in the Chapel Hill area, a lot of the people I knew were, not surprisingly, from somewhere in North Carolina. Where did all the North Carolinians go? They're of all economic classes and in all professions, so they wouldn't have all been gentrified out. How could one hear "very few Southern accents" in Chapel Hill?