Juilliard and Manhattan School of Music

[Zulam]

Hi:

I would appreciate to get some comments on the "Jazz Programs" (performance) of the above 2 institutions:

1) They are both graduate courses - but what are the specific differences? Do they have highlights?

2) Is it worthwhile to go thru the program (at either school)? What are the benefits of attending and finishing the program?

3) Would you become a "better player" and "be more successful" in your profession, after having attended the program (whichever??)?

Thanks,
Z

[hearsay]

Whether of not it's worthwhile to attend these programs is I think particular to you and depends on what you hope to get out of them. A degree will not help you per se in becoming a performing musician, but it can help in other areas and career paths. Nobody ever fills out an application for a gig, it all depends on your proven abilities.

I can't tell you about these particular programs as I haven't been to graduate school, but I did go to MSM so I can tell you a little about that. Besides what you may get from your classes and teahcers, you get to be in New York(unless you already are in which case scratch that) and be around a lot of musical happennings and people to learn from (many of them are at the school even). You can also meet a lot of like minded aspiring musicians and develop relationships that may lead to future work and even a career. Although I can't claim that this has exactly happened for me (yet anyway), some of the musicians at the school while I was there were Eric Harland, Stefon Harris, Jason Moran, Myron Waldon and plenty of other talented people. Some of these relationships have helped me musically and my career in some ways. So that is one very important and positive thing you can get out of the schools, of course there are other ways to develop such relationships too, but it was helpful to me.

[iris]

I might be biased (or I am biased) because I went to the New England Conservatory of Music for Jazz Perf for my masters (which I think is the best grad school program ever), but from talking to others who have attended MSM, they have said that while MSM is a structured program it is not a musically creative environment. Many of my friends who have attend say that they have so much homework and classes to take in order to graduate that they don't have anytime to practice or develop their own voice. grad school should be a time of exploration. So many of my friends have stated that they wished that they had more time just to play.

A pro to MSM is that you are in New York and can see lots of great music and network with people. That was the one bummer about going to NEC is that it is located in Boston...the scene was not happening when I lived there.
I have a friend who attended both MSM and NEC and said that MSM can not even compare to the quality of education that you receive at NEC. Its a much more open minded environment than MSM. Teachers at NEC guide you and help you find your individual voice. If you are looking for a highly structured environment though NEC may not be the place for you. There's so much space to grow but if you are not focused you can fall through the cracks. From talking to people who went/go to Julliard...I've heard its a more straight ahead approach. I have known people who have been accepted to the school who soon after quit because they hated it. But I also know people in the program who have loved it and have completed the program.
This is just my two cents.....let me know if you have more questions
iris

[Zulam]

Hearsay:
Many thanks to your inputs!! I guess one thing is for sure -- you have to be in NYC to get to wherever you wanna go -- in regard to becoming a jazz musician (OR NOT!!).
Anyway, take it easy -- be happy.

Tks again.
Z

[Zulam]

Hi Iris -- gee, you were in NEC, Boston -- which years?
Where did you go for your undergrad?

It is nice to read your comments about Juilliard and MSM. Many thanks for your time. Hope to catch up with you on one of your gigs.

Take Care,
Z

[bluenoter]

Zulam--

This is pretty far afield, but I have a young friend who recently majored in dance at Juilliard (as an undergrad) but seems to have known practically everyone there and practically everything about the school. Let me know if you want me to refer your question to her.

[iris]

HI Zulam
I was in Boston pretty recently from 99-03. I was at NEC from 99-01 and then I taught for a couple years before moving to NYC. I take it you live here now? What do you play? Did you go to Berklee? Do I know you? Maybe?
iris

[hearsay]

Hi Zulam,
I'd disagree that you have to be in NYC to get any where in music, there is a lot of music and musicians doing great stuff from all over the world. NYC is a great place though and there are a lot of wonderful established and aspiring musicans here.

[iris]

No. you don't have to live in NYC to become successful. I guess you just have to live in a place that inspires you. For me, the environment in NYC is intense which inspires me to "go for it". In Boston, the few regular gigs were controlled by a handful of players and there were so many Berklee students I just couldn't compete. So Zulam, Hearsay is right, you don't have to live here to be successful. There are just so many benefits to living here; some many musicians to play with, to listen to, to connect with.
iris

[Zulam]

Hi Bluenoter :

Gee -- that would be appreciated -- great!!
Big Apple is a "big city" -- and even if you are not a musician, you are liable to "get lost". Some "musician's tour guide" (an inputs) in and around the "relevant people and places" (to meet and see) .... in regard to Juilliard in general .... gee, that would surely help!

Many thanks.
Z

[pollo loco]

Why not try New Orleans, Memphis, Kansas City, and/or Chicago for a while?
As a young person, why would you risk sitting on your hands in NYC? Try Austin, TX. Try L. A. Are you the best right now? OR do you figure to be a fine one after you get some professional playing under your belt? The growth factor is a biggie.
pl

[Zulam]

Hi pollo:

Thanks for your comments. I guess you are right.
But I think I would like to take up the challenge -- and try to survive the NYC Hell's Kitchen.

Anyway, I will still be on this board and I will update you after I have been in NYC for -- say -- a year or so (starting next fall 2004). Either, as a player -- or as one of the audience in the jazz clubs -- the NY jazz scene should be motivating enough though. My first challenge would be -- getting an apartment in NYC? Any inputs on this one ... anybody .... I will be arriving in NYC around Aug 2004.

Many thanks, keep the music Alive and Swinging,
Peace,
Z

[iris]

I'd recommend www.craigslist.org (new York) and maybe try to mind a sublet at first. That's what my boyfriend and I did. We subleted in queens because we knew it would be cheap but also found out that we hated it there so subleting gave us the chance to reveiw our options. We happily live in Brookyln, but would love to live in Hells Kitchen some day.

Good luck!

[Zulam]

Thanks iris!
Z