Writing for Bass sax. Help wanted....

[Deke]

The only thing I know about the bass sax is that it's pitched an octave lower than the tenor. How is the music written? Which clef? Concert or transposed? Anything else I should know?

Oh yes, and is this the instrument known as the 'goofuss'?

[Dick Trickle]

It should be in B flat and I would imagine your player would be versed in Treble if they play the other saxes regularly. My recomendation though would be to match it up in bass cleff in your score though.

Hopefully Grey Pencil will chime in on this one. I have no practical experience with a bass sax. I know I certainly like some of Tom Waits' stuff that employs it. Doesn't sound goofy to me.

[graypencil]

Write it just like you would for tenor ( up a 9th from desired concert pitch )

however ..it will sound One octave BELOW the tenor ..

So: if you write treble clef space C ..you'll get bass clef LINE Bb

Basically, all you gain over a modern Low A Bari Sax is a usuable Major third lower ..plus a distinctive foghorny sound

allow for LOTS of breath !!!!!

[Deke]

Thanks!

This thread had disappeared when I checked for it half an hour ago , so it now has a mirror image in the Alley!

So... not much gained over a bari then? My Sibelius software defaults to bass clef when I write for that. When I was writing by hand I used the treble clef, it didn't seem to cause any problems. Anyway, better make quite sure I make good use of those bottom 4 notes!

[graypencil]

You might try posing this question to Joel Kaye on the Kentonia BBS at:

kentonia@yahoogroups.com

Joel played bass sax ( along with many other reeds ) with Kenton for some time, and knows the ins and outs of the instrument well ..

personally, when I need those low notes, I prefer the Bass Bone and/or Tuba..

but that's just my taste ..( plus, they're easier to find )

[Deke]

Having had the good fortune to work with a couple of very fast trombone players, I'd forgotten that they can't all keep up with the rest of the brass, and I tend to need fast for a lot of my choppier lines, so even if I could persuade a 'bonist to take up occasional bassbone I'd be unsure of his/her ability to keep up.

The only time I wrote for tuba was at the request of one of my former trumpet players who was now at music college and bored with the stuff her little brass quintette were doing. My only experience of 'jazz tuba' (Well, almost my only experience...) was Dave Bargenon (Did I spell that right? It's been a long time...), and I thought they could all do that, so I wrote a piece with a boogie tuba bass line.

Apparently the tuba player took one look and declared it to be impossible to play.

I have that problem with a lot of my stuff...

Thanks for the address, I'll give it a go!

[Lady LCD]

Bass sax rocks

It isn't anything you are hired to play on a regular basis but it just a darned impressive hunk of metal when you have a chance to use it.

I have seen scores in both treble and bass clef. I would have to go with the "most sax players read treble very well" idea and write in treble. It is almost always true (I can't think of a single exception. Anyone else?) that a bass sax player can read treble because they started on a different sax. Bass sax isn't one of those instruments offered in a typical (or even atypical in most cases) school system when you are picking the instrument you want to play. Come to think of it, I don't know any bass sax players that didn't start on another wind instrument scored in treble clef.

...and speaking as a (most of the time) bari player, I am used to reading bass clef tuba music and transposing it as I go. Strangely enough, it is a very simple process that allows the E flat bari to read the tuba music, scored in bass clef, as a treble clef score with a minor accidental change.

I guess I am here to spread odd bari sax information in to the population.

Best of luck with the score,

~Nissa

[graypencil]

Originally Posted by Deke

Having had the good fortune to work with a couple of very fast trombone players, I'd forgotten that they can't all keep up with the rest of the brass, and I tend to need fast for a lot of my choppier lines, so even if I could persuade a 'bonist to take up occasional bassbone I'd be unsure of his/her ability to keep up.

The only time I wrote for tuba was at the request of one of my former trumpet players who was now at music college and bored with the stuff her little brass quintette were doing. My only experience of 'jazz tuba' (Well, almost my only experience...) was Dave Bargenon (Did I spell that right? It's been a long time...), and I thought they could all do that, so I wrote a piece with a boogie tuba bass line.

Apparently the tuba player took one look and declared it to be impossible to play.

I have that problem with a lot of my stuff...

Thanks for the address, I'll give it a go!

Possibly the problem with the Tuba boogie line was breath spots, not the number of notes ..

On my CD , I had Dan Marcus double a funk Tower of Power type horn line on tuba ( with lots of breath holes ) and he played the crap out of it!

most modern trombone guys can move pretty fast in the mid and upper register ( what with more 1st thru 3rd position choices , doodle tounging etc. ) ..but if you want fast moting in the bottom end, you'll be better off with bari sax ( less air than tuba ) ..if you want power ..double it with a sampler and some sound with a bright fast attack ..

[Dan H.]

Originally Posted by Deke

Having had the good fortune to work with a couple of very fast trombone players, I'd forgotten that they can't all keep up with the rest of the brass, and I tend to need fast for a lot of my choppier lines, so even if I could persuade a 'bonist to take up occasional bassbone I'd be unsure of his/her ability to keep up.

The only time I wrote for tuba was at the request of one of my former trumpet players who was now at music college and bored with the stuff her little brass quintette were doing. My only experience of 'jazz tuba' (Well, almost my only experience...) was Dave Bargenon (Did I spell that right? It's been a long time...), and I thought they could all do that, so I wrote a piece with a boogie tuba bass line.

Apparently the tuba player took one look and declared it to be impossible to play.

I have that problem with a lot of my stuff...

Thanks for the address, I'll give it a go!

A good "real" bass trombone player (not a tenor player doubling on the bass bone- they are different instruments) should be well accustomed to negotiating fast licks around the bottom of the staff and below. The second valve featured on most bass trombones is there to improve facility in the lower register.

[Deke]

This gets interesting. You learn something new everyday. My favourite fixer is a trombone player, I'll see how he's fixed for bassbones....

What's the range of the bassbone, by the way?

GP. Thinking back, you're probably right about the breathing spaces. When I first started writing I didn't concern myself with the niceties, like breathing, and my first stable line-up just kind of played around with the arrangements I guess. They finally protested when I wrote a big finish (Makin' whoopee' I think it was...) that consisted of a chord (One note each), held for what I've just timed as 23 seconds. Oddly enough, one of the trumpeters didn't think it was a problem, maybe because she didn't smoke...

Nissa. When I first got around to learning to write music, the book I used (Which was ancient) chose some weird clef for the trombone, and I wrote all the parts out using it. The poor sucker who got landed with the parts was a kid in his mid-teens. He was perplexed, but after a discussion with the trumpet player mentioned above he suddenly relaxed. Apparently this clef put the notes on the same line as a part writen for tenor sax (transposed). They'd worked out that the key signature was in concert, so all he had to do was to transpose back again...

This was the point where I developed a new respect for proper musicians.

Hey, if you play bari, will you be going to see Doc Kupka with the Tower of Power when they hit Seattle in a few weeks?

[graypencil]

Originally Posted by Deke

What's the range of the bassbone, by the way?

GP. Thinking back, you're probably right about the breathing spaces. When I first started writing I didn't concern myself with the niceties, like breathing, and my first stable line-up just kind of played around with the arrangements I guess. They finally protested when I wrote a big finish (Makin' whoopee' I think it was...) that consisted of a chord (One note each), held for what I've just timed as 23 seconds. Oddly enough, one of the trumpeters didn't think it was a problem, maybe because she didn't smoke...

Actually, I'll bet that ALL the horn players werent really thrilled with a 23 second held chord!

however , in general, the bigger the bore , the more wind requred to sustain a tone ...the problem for the trumpet players is avoiding stuff like hernias and popping out eyeballs from the back pressure ..