Caught between two boxes

The Gerry Mulligan Concert Band box on Mosaic?

Or Miles at the Plugged Nickel?

Keep in mind, this will be my only music purchase this year*, so help me choose wisely.

The first one keeps getting raves. But is it really essential? Second seems a safer pick, but I already have the studio box with Shorter/Hancock/Carter/Williams.

* well, maybe one or two CDs from Abbey during Amplify.

[gnhrtg]

I'd say the second is essential no matter what else you have.
The first I was considering getting in the near future. I know Stonemonkts likes it a lot, but am curious to hear what others might have to say.

[Rob Damen]

I'm one of the few people who doesn't much care for "Plugged Pennies". I just can't take Miles playing. The rest of the band smokes, of course, but I honestly don't go back to it often.

Since you already have the other Miles Quintet box, it sounds like a little variety isn't a bad thing. I don't have the Mulligan box yet, but I do have the "Live at Village Vanguard" Verve released on CD last year and found it agreeable. It's a fine band, if you like that sort of a thing. It certainly swings.

All things considered, I'd say go for the Mulligan.

Cheers,

Rob

[bostontricky]

On the other hand, consider the limited availability of the Mosaics. Once they're out of print, expect to pay an instant 50% surcharge to track down a copy. I'm still kicking myself over passing on the Woody Shaw set.

Gokhan is correct though, the Plugged Nickel box is essential. One thing to keep in mind: Columbia is apparently reissuing most of their Miles boxes without all the flashy packaging, and soon. Jazzmatazz has the dates.

Maybe you can score both...

[Jon Abbey]

the Plugged Nickel is probably my favorite acoustic Miles and the release that convinced me about Shorter's greatness. I've never connected with the studio releases from that band, but I love the atmosphere and energy captured in this box. I haven't heard the Mulligan.

Alex, I'm likely only going to have the three new ones and the box set with me, if you want something older, you should e-mail me before I leave for Cologne on the 3rd. looking forward to meeting you, make sure you say hi. did you see the venue changed to Backfabrik? are you familiar with that?

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

the Plugged Nickel is probably my favorite acoustic Miles and the release that convinced me about Shorter's greatness. I've never connected with the studio releases from that band, but I love the atmosphere and energy captured in this box.

As great at the Plugged Nickel recordings are, the recordings from the band's 1967 European tour are a couple of steps beyond, and without a doubt my favorite recordings of that quintet. No Blues (JMY) is from Paris and His Greatest Concert Ever (Jazzman) is from Antwerp. Amazing stuff.

Do you know those, Jon?

[Jon Abbey]

no, that's interesting to hear, are those readily available? I recall spending quite a bit of time hunting for some JMY early seventies Miles release, and never managing to find it (pre-Internet, I believe).

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

no, that's interesting to hear, are those readily available? I recall spending quite a bit of time hunting for some JMY early seventies Miles release, and never managing to find it (pre-Internet, I believe).

Unfortunately, both are very difficult to find, especially Antwerp. I found the Antwerp one on a Paris used cd shop trek with Litwack a few years back. The JMY I think I bought at Tower in the Village maybe 8-10 years ago.

[Enforcer]

Lucky for you, this is the easiest decision in the history of North America. Ah, f**k. You don't live in North America. Oh, well. I'll make the decision for you, because it's super easy for me:

Get the Miles Plugged Nickel. This is one of the baddest motherf**kers ever put to tape. It completely f**ked my head when I bought it many years ago, and it pretty much destroyed my capacity to leave my listening room for a few weeks afterward. You get a narrow selection of tunes, but the instrumental permutations they get put through, changing from set to set, are enough to keep your interest piqued for a lifetime.

The Hancock/Carter/Williams rhythm section is at its peak during these sets. Williams and Carter bend the time and tempos in crazy fashion. I don't know how they keep it together with all the shifts. Carter might play a triplet phrase, Tony will pick up on it, and suddenly it becomes the new tempo, in three instead of four. Herbie plays pretty sparsely on this, but it's a great contrast to the adventurous play of the rest of the quintet.

Miles is in a transitional phase during these recordings. He isn't playing the pristinely executed phrases he showed off on the '64 set, but he's not completely out of the hard bop phrasing, either. Shorter is f**king brilliant. This is the recording that clued me into his monumental impact on this group. George Coleman's departure, and Wayne's arrival, are what signaled the beginning of a creative explosion for the group. You can tell Wayne was a bad motherf**ker on E.S.P., but to hear the drastic retooling of these standards from the '64 gig to this one in '65, it's clear that Wayne was the harbinger of the revolution.

Mulligan is great, but this thing is *not optional.* F**king buy it. Dig?

Larry

[stonemonkts]

Originally Posted by gnhrtg

I'd say the second is essential no matter what else you have.
The first I was considering getting in the near future. I know Stonemonkts likes it a lot, but am curious to hear what others might have to say.

I love the Mulligan box set.

But if I had to make this choice it would be a no-brainer as Larry described (hit how I feel about it on the head, in fact). The Plugged Nickel box contains some of the most amazing jazz of any kind I've ever heard. The studio sessions are wonderful too, but there is nothing like the truly living breathing kickass live in the moment jazz recorded at that club. Wayne Shorter is as great as he's ever been during that decade, and the rhythm section is from another world. Miles' playing is at times not pretty, but if you dig Miles and consider the pain he was in at the time (bad hips), then I don't think it detracts from the music. The most brilliant moments in the box are ones where Miles was sitting out, imho.

Anyway, that's my vote.

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Pete C

As great at the Plugged Nickel recordings are, the recordings from the band's 1967 European tour are a couple of steps beyond, and without a doubt my favorite recordings of that quintet. No Blues (JMY) is from Paris and His Greatest Concert Ever (Jazzman) is from Antwerp. Amazing stuff.

Do you know those, Jon?

Pete,

Did you find these on vinyl?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

If you only have "one" Jazz box set in your budget, there's an easy way to make it two: Go buy the Tristano/Marsh/Konitz box from Mosaic. Try it out. If you like it, you got a good one. If you don't, it's going oop very soon. You'll be able to sell it on ebay and make all of your money back on it in no time at all.

Kevin

[Gary Sisco]

The Plugged Nickel, Alex. That's essential music for anyone's collection. Having the studio sessions is great, of course, goes without saying. But the live stuff is a different animal. There's no contest, IMHO. PN is some of the best live jazz ever recorded. For years, I hauled around a cassette copy of friend's Japanese vinyl that presented some of it (sometimes -- even that was difficult as all hell to find), but it seemed like only a tease. I couldn't understand why it wasn't available in the US in entirety, as they were reissuing Miles by the ton. So when that box came out, I bought it immediately, though I was struggling financially at the time. I had to have it. I mean *had* to have it. I've never regretted it for a nanosecond and wouldn't part with it for groceries, even. (I have the 180-gram Mosaic vinyl box. It was the first thing I ever bought from them.)

I'm still wondering why the Tokyo concert with Sam Rivers in the band hasn't been released for general distribution in the States. It's the only recording of that short-lived lineup extant. I first heard that in Montreal years back, now, at a club one night while waiting for the band to start. There was a dj spinning great jazz when to my astonishment (being a Milesophile) I heard what was obviously Miles, Herbie, Tony, and Carter playing a really fast version of "So What," but who in the hell was the tenor? I knew it wasn't Shorter from the opening seconds, so I went to the booth to talk to the dj. He had it on some extremely rare vinyl, and good, clean vinyl, too. I've since scored a burn of it.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

Pete,

Did you find these on vinyl?

No, both are CD.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Rainman

I'm still wondering why the Tokyo concert with Sam Rivers in the band hasn't been released for general distribution in the States. It's the only recording of that short-lived lineup extant.

There is also a broadcast (I think that's the source) circulating among collectors of the Osaka performance from the same tour.

[Gary Sisco]

Really. I must have it. Hadn't heard a whisper about it.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

I have both boxes. Naturally I'm more familiar with the Miles' set. I've bought it in so many of its reincarnations.

In the '70s it was just a 2-LP set. A German friend of mine had it and it began an obsession with the music. It knocked me out in the seventies.

Then in the early '90s I read a review about the box set. It was a Japanese import. I literally called all over the country trying to find it. I was caught up in some weird Miles underground. Finally I located a dealer (yeah, it was drug-like) in California who had 1(!) copy being shipped in from Japan in a couple of months. He hooked me up. Finally Columbia here in the states released a nother box with more music. So I bought it again. So basically I've been living with this music for over 20 years. Most of the solos I can sing along with. If I had to give up my collection but could keep one item, this box would be it.

I got the Mulligan box a couple of months ago and have only listened to it once. It is an excellent release and I recommend it to anyone. But I'm a Miles addict, and the Plugged Nickle set is like heroin.

[Pete C]

I only became familiar with the Mulligan CJB music a couple of years ago, and the thing that surprised me most is how rooted in Basie it is, along with the more expected post-Birth of the Cool elements.

[james harrigan]

Originally Posted by Alex

Keep in mind, this will be my only music purchase this year*, so help me choose wisely.

if it were me, I wouldn't blow a very limited music buying budget on ANY box set. Better to spread your money around on as much different stuff as you can. If you really need to hear Plugged Nickel, there's a one CD sampler available (which I have and, I confess, never warmed to); I imagine something similar is true for Mulligan.

there's really only one multi-CD set from the past several years that I'd call absolutely essential for all jazz fans, and that is Never No Lament, the remastered reissue of Duke Ellington's 1940-42 "Blanton-Webster" band. There are some clinker tracks on this three CD set, but the density of masterpieces is amazing, and the sound will be a revelation to anyone familiar only with the earlier cruddy CD issue.

[Rob C]

Haven't heard the Mulligan, but have to chime in that the Plugged Nickel is:

(a) much different from the quintet's studio recordings
(b) sort of unexcerptable--in the sense that part of what makes it so great is absorbing the music over the course of all the discs (it works AS a box as few other boxes do)--so I don't think a one-disc sampler would carry the same impact (in fact, I had the old Cookin' at the Plugged Nickel disc, and while I was intrigued by it, I didn't love it, like I love the box)
(c) totally essential

[Gary Sisco]

Plus, you can listen to the sets as they were performed, and over several nights. Just buy it, Alex. That's my highest review.

Okay, I'm not one for resisting peer pressure, especially of the "just buy it because you *HAVE* to" variety.

I pulled the trigger, and my wallet is crying in pain. No books this summer.

But the "All Blues" on disc 7 and "Green Dolphin Street" on disc 5 are smokin'. In fact, discs 7 and 5 are generally pretty damn overwhelming.

Okay, I'm gonna sign off and go listen some more...

[Gary Sisco]

Alex -- I was using my review key, which works like the star system. It goes like this, from highest to lowest:

1. Just buy it.
2. Buy it if you think you'll like it.
3. Don't buy it if you don't think you'll like it.
4. Don't buy it.

[Gentle Giant]

This has been very interesting to read, since I, too, generally eschew boxes because of limited funds, although I crave them all the same. Would folks be so kind as to rank the essentiality of these three for me (assuming they're all essential, I'd still like them ranked on the basis of revelatory pleasure):

The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions
The Complete In a Silent Way Sessions
The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions

Of the three original releases, I have the deepest emotional connection with IASW, as it was my first Miles experience (first jazz experience, too), but they are certainly all of a kind, and I've been way into JJ lately.

[John B]

[QUOTE=Gentle Giant] Would folks be so kind as to rank the essentiality of these three for me
The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions
The Complete In a Silent Way Sessions
The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions
QUOTE]

1. IASW
2. BB
3. JJ

You might want to hold off a few weeks, as Columbia is re-releasing the first two in less expensive packaging. CDUniverse has the BB box for preorder for less than $35.

[shrugs]

Originally Posted by Alex

No books this summer.
.

No libraries?

[Rob C]

Haven't heard Jack Johnson--looked like too many alt takes for my taste. I haven't even heard the original record, I'm waiting for the remastered single disc. But the IASW box is awesome, another one like the PN box that really works AS a box, to my mind, as opposed to just a collection of albums. The BB box is good, I like it, but it's not as essential, IMO. It's basically just the original BB album plus a bunch of other stuff recorded by Miles a few months later. Now, it's still Miles, so you can't go too wrong, but get IASW first.

(BTW: The titles of these boxes are total misrepresentations, IMO, especially the BB box. Most people know that BB, the original record, was created by cutting and pasting long studio jams. So, you'd think that the "complete sessions" would contain all, or some, or any, of these jams. No. This should really be called "The Complete Original Bitches Brew Album and Also Some Other Unrelated Music from Around the Same Time". But I guess that's not good marketing?)

[Tim Livingston]

No Blues is my favorite live Miles. I haven't heard Greatest Jazz Concert Eve

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Rob C

This should really be called "The Complete Original Bitches Brew Album and Also Some Other Unrelated Music from Around the Same Time".

Indeed. Same with the IASW set, though that does, at least, include the unedited versions.

And the Miles/Evans box should be called "The Ridiculously Too Complete Studio Sessions," for Schaap's inclusion of every fart & belch.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Indeed. Same with the IASW set, though that does, at least, include the unedited versions.

And the Miles/Evans box should be called "The Ridiculously Too Complete Studio Sessions," for Schaap's inclusion of every fart & belch.

Did Miles use a mute when he farted?