Horrifying Images from Iraq

[crawjo]

The news media, to my understanding, is not showing the images of Nick Berg's death. If they are going to show images of the prison torture, why not the other side as well?

I don't know. Perhaps out of respect for the family. But Matt Drudge has the images up on his web site. They are here. These are still shots, not the actual video. Big time warning: THIS IS VERY GRAPHIC, and I found it very disturbing. If you don't want to see a man being beheaded, don't click on the link.

Hannity has the actual video link on his website.

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by crawjo

The news media, to my understanding, is not showing the images of Nick Berg's death. If they are going to show images of the prison torture, why not the other side as well?

I'm just guessing here -- but perhaps because, as disgusting as the images of Americans abusing prisoners was, none of them had their head chopped off?

It figures that Drudge would post a link.

I'm glad that we're going on vacation and I'll get a little reprieve from the almost daily insanity within the news.

[john williams]

Escalation.


Not much will get better in Iraq for many years, methinks.


Nobody has the answers, everyone involved is incompetent.

I'm just guessing here -- but perhaps because, as disgusting as the images of Americans abusing prisoners was, none of them had their head chopped off?

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.......................

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get the fucking point?????!!!!!!!!!!

Sheeeeeeeeeeshhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[crawjo]

I actually don't think so, Ron. On May 9, the Washington Post's ombudsman defended the showings of the prison torture by saying "The reality of war in all its aspects needs to be reported and photographed. That is the patriotic, and necessary, thing to do in a democracy." Berg's death is a part of that reality.

But, man, I agree with you about the news. This stuff is driving me crazy, and I feel all sick inside about everything that is going on. Have a great vacation, Ron.

[Gentle Giant]

I won't watch murder.

[stonemonkts]

Nah, watching that shit willingly should give one a clue to deeper problems. If you find yourself viewing that stuff on your own accord, I think you should either seek help, or face your demons head on.

Ogling violent images is the same as watching porn. Not that there's anythinbg wrong with it, but see it for what it is.

[walto]

Originally Posted by JBW

Escalation.


Not much will get better in Iraq for many years, methinks.


Nobody has the answers, everyone involved is incompetent.

Oh, you're wrong about that my friend. Our own Monte has staked $10 that things will be much better there within (now) THREE years. Peace, democracy, minority rights, no foreign troops, all that good stuff.

See, I'm not forgetting, Monte. I've got that money spent, baby!

[Enforcer]

You want horrifying? This is horrifying.

[stonemonkts]

Heehee. That's the worst (best) picture of Rod yet.

[Clay Fink]

I watched the Daniel Perle video and that was enough for one lifetime. I'll resist the temptation this time. This just escalates things for both sides.

[Clay Fink]

Just a thought: why are pictures of extreme human savagery posted on media sites an acceptable practice, while pictures of people having sex are treated as illicit. Someone here got in trouble for posting a picture of a fake vagina (in a successful atempt at humor), but pictures of torture, dead torture victims and little boys with thir arms blown off are OK. Not that porno is OK for prime time, but why is this "faces of death stuff" alright? I'm really honestly confused by this.

Oh, I see.

So none of you were opposed to all those torture pics being shown, but THIS is unacceptable?

[walto]

In the "family magazine" The New Yorker this week, there's a full-page picture of a naked, blood-soaked couple. The man is holding a carving knife. I guess they want prove that they're "edgy" and "today," but, since my kids page through that mag from time to time, I didn't think it was ok myself.

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Oh, I see.

So none of you were opposed to all those torture pics being shown, but THIS is unacceptable?

I could have predicted your response, Scott. No. I was asking why we seem to tolerate violent images while we reject non-violent sexual ones. It was a general question, but never mind.

What I have to ask myself, though, is why looking at images of victims who are Arab bothers me LESS than looking at a white American's beheading. Read that carefully. What I'm saying is thet my emotional response to violence against people who don't look like me is less than what it is for someone who does look like me. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Still, I have to say that the original pictures of torture (the naked pyramid, etc.) didn't prepare me for the dog attack or dog collar pictures, which I found much more disturbing. The actual video taped killing of this guy does all that one or two or three better. That I don't want to look at it does not mean that I think it's OK to kill someone just because he's an American, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

crawjo,

TV news (at least CNN) showed the video up to the point where the killer is pulling the knife from within his clothes. Did you want the actual beheading played on TV?

The Arab networks plays the video up to the point where Berg's screaming. But they didn't play the actual beheading either.

Frankly, I'm sick of the Middle East. My kneejerk reaction is to pull our troops, contractors, etc out and let those cats slaughter each other.

[clinthopson]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Oh, I see.

So none of you were opposed to all those torture pics being shown, but THIS is unacceptable?

Dolan, this fucking war is unaccaptable!

If Bush hadn't lied about the situation, Berg, Perle, 700 American young people and thousands of Iraqi civilians would still be alive today.

Berg's death is just the latest atrocity in this mess.

and thousands of Iraqi civilians would still be alive today.

Oh? Please do tell.

And then when you're done, go check out some of the WHO reports that were made in the last year of Husseins reign.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

Dolan, this fucking war is unaccaptable!

If Bush hadn't lied about the situation, Berg, Perle, 700 American young people and thousands of Iraqi civilians would still be alive today.

Berg's death is just the latest atrocity in this mess.

While I'm sure that you'd be happier if it was Richard Perle, I think you mean, Danny Pearl, and he died in Pakistan, long before Bush "lied" about any situation in Iraq.

[patricia]

Originally Posted by Clay Fink

I could have predicted your response, Scott. No. I was asking why we seem to tolerate violent images while we reject non-violent sexual ones. What I have to ask myself, though, is why looking at images of victims who are Arab bothers me LESS than looking at a white American's beheading.

Or, why do thousands of Iraqis, killed by bombs and military hardware, as well as the atrocious treatment of Iraqi prisoners not shock us as much as the pictures of the death of one American man does??
If soldiers had to kill each of the Iraqis who have died, up close and personal, would there be thousands of dead, as there are??
If we only see the numbers of dead, are they somehow less important than one death seen in horrible and graphic detail??

War is the real obscenity and I am constantly puzzled as to why, after thousands of years of so-called civilization, there is still the same old solution. The only difference is that we can snuff out thousands of lives, without ever having to see their faces as individuals.
Nobody's hands are clean. This whole "liberation" by death, as this war seems to be, is the real obscenity.

I think you mean, Danny Pearl, and he died in Pakistan, long before Bush "lied" about any situation in Iraq.

Aw c'mon Crawjo, now you're just not playing fair.

Besides, it's perfectly clear that Bush chopped Pearl's head off*























*though you have to be wearing your super high intensity Bush hating goggles with optional peyote injectors while watching the video to be able to see that it really IS Bush.

[crawjo]

Saddam Hussein's regime was built on a foundation of death. I don't think there was any way to end it without shedding blood. I understand where you are coming from, Patricia, but I think you need to keep in mind that peace does not mean "the absence of war."

[clinthopson]

I meant Milton Berle.

[patricia]

Originally Posted by crawjo

Saddam Hussein's regime was built on a foundation of death. I don't think there was any way to end it without shedding blood. I understand where you are coming from, Patricia, but I think you need to keep in mind that peace does not mean "the absence of war."

I wonder whether it really was impossible to remove Saddam Hussein and his regime without launching this atrocity on Iraq, which has resulted in not only the death of Nicholas Berg, but over seven hundred other young men just like him. Then factor in the thousands of Iraqi deaths, not to mention the destruction of a good part of their country. Is that humane, or, in practical terms, even effective? How many deaths will it take to bring peace and prosperity to Iraq?
If this ongoing war means the deaths of thousands of people for the advancement of the power hungry few, and is the route that civilization is taking, we're regressing.

[Gentle Giant]

Watching pictures of the torture was not pleasant by any stretch of the imagination, but as they were still photos and, with the aid of blurred spots, not in violation of generally accepted editorial standards, I was not opposed to their being shown. Aside from which, their publication was highly newsworthy as they were uncovering unacceptable practices that warrant investigation.

The distinction I make with the video is that it is in fact a video and you can see not just torture and humiliation but a barbaric murder, an innocent person's last seconds of life. It crosses the line from newsworthiness to sensationalistic. The torture is horrific, the video is obscene.

[al j]

I refuse to watch the video. I don't think I could endure the screams, and the still images are more than I can stomach.

Anybody read some of the comments at Hannity's site on the topic? Such ignorance, with a large majority of them thinking the media should air the video as a wake-up call and to rally the public in seeing "what we're up against". Personally, I can't think of anything that would damage public opinion more.

Dolan, I don't know if your ill-conceived conclusions reveal astounding naïveté or if it's just that you have been so brainwashed by neoCon spin that you are unable to see things in proper perspective. Of course the latter suggests that the former is true, so, hey, perhaps you will never snap out of your deluded state.