Nixon was "loaded"

[Gentle Giant]

You think we've got it bad now? Nixon and Kissinger were truly two of a kind....

Transcripts show out-of-control Nixon
Kissinger phone calls are disquieting record
By Calvin Woodward, Associated Press *|* May 27, 2004

WASHINGTON -- As his presidency unraveled, Richard Nixon was too ''loaded" to take an urgent call during the Arab-Israeli war and joked darkly about bombing Congress during impeachment hearings, according to transcripts of foreign policy chief Henry Kissinger's phone calls.

With Watergate bearing down and resignation months away, Nixon also pushed ideas that Kissinger feared could start a war, according to transcripts among more than 20,000 pages released yesterday by the National Archives.

Kissinger, who was Nixon's national security adviser and then secretary of state, guarded the privacy of the records for three decades before agreeing to let them go to the archives for public consumption. They had been held sealed at the Library of Congress.

Kissinger, now a foreign policy consultant, had secretaries tape the calls and make transcripts or listen and take shorthand.

On the night of Oct. 11, 1973, just days into the Arab-Israeli War and with the United States and Soviet Union on a seeming collision course, Prime Minister Edward Heath of Britain tried to reach Nixon by phone to discuss the crisis.

''Can we tell them, 'No?' " Kissinger asked his assistant, Brent Scowcroft, who had relayed the request. ''When I talked to the president, he was loaded."

In March 1974, a month after the House voted to proceed with impeachment proceedings and five months before Nixon resigned, Kissinger fretted about the president's state of mind in a phone call with White House aide Alexander Haig.

''I am calling you about something the president said this morning which rather disturbed me," Kissinger said. ''He was in a rather sour mood."

''Yes, that is conceivable," Haig said.

Kissinger went on to complain that Nixon was being too tough on Israeli allies and ''has been just waiting for an opportunity to lay into them."

Now I tell you if he goes publicly after the Israelis, he might as well start a war," he said.

Haig said Nixon was, ''just unwinding," and mentioned that the president had told him to fetch the ''football," the briefcase with the codes to unleash nuclear weapons.

''For what?" Kissinger asked.

''He is going to drop it on the Hill," Haig said. ''What I am saying is, don't take him too seriously."

At the time, Kissinger was national security adviser and secretary of state.

But Nixon did not tell him everything. On Oct. 12, 1973, Kissinger knew Nixon was announcing a new vice president to replace Spiro Agnew, who had resigned. But Kissinger did not know whom Nixon had chosen.

On the phone with Haig, Kissinger said he could go along with Nelson Rockefeller -- ''that gives me no pain" -- or anyone except former Texas governor John Connally -- ''a no-no." Nixon picked Gerald Ford.

A window into detente, the transcripts also show the rapport that Kissinger and Soviet Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin developed even in times of extreme tension and bitter public words.

They established a channel as early as 1969, often meeting without secretaries or interpreters.

Kissinger was having lunch with Dobrynin when Democratic Senator Hubert Humphrey called to complain about the Soviets rearming Arabs faster than Washington was sending planes to Israel.

''How do we know the Russians aren't fooling us?" Humphrey demanded.

''If the Russians are fooling us, we know what we will have to do," Kissinger replied.

The records show his Soviet guest was in the dining room with him during this talk.

Although Kissinger's days were piled high with foreign crises, he found time for celebrities, chatting with Frank Sinatra, Bob Hope, Warren Beatty, and others. John Wayne called to tell him he had an eye problem, one iris was opening faster than the other.

''It's not just politics, but also in many respects about American culture," said Karl Weissenbach, who oversaw opening of records as director of the Nixon presidential materials staff at the archives.*

[patricia]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

You think we've got it bad now? Nixon and Kissinger were truly two of a kind....

Transcripts show out-of-control Nixon
Kissinger phone calls are disquieting record
By Calvin Woodward, Associated Press *|* May 27, 2004

WASHINGTON -- As his presidency unraveled, Richard Nixon was too ''loaded" to take an urgent call during the Arab-Israeli war and joked darkly about bombing Congress during impeachment hearings, according to transcripts of foreign policy chief Henry Kissinger's phone calls.

With Watergate bearing down and resignation months away, Nixon also pushed ideas that Kissinger feared could start a war, according to transcripts among more than 20,000 pages released yesterday by the National Archives.

Kissinger, who was Nixon's national security adviser and then secretary of state, guarded the privacy of the records for three decades before agreeing to let them go to the archives for public consumption. They had been held sealed at the Library of Congress.

Kissinger, now a foreign policy consultant, had secretaries tape the calls and make transcripts or listen and take shorthand.

On the night of Oct. 11, 1973, just days into the Arab-Israeli War and with the United States and Soviet Union on a seeming collision course, Prime Minister Edward Heath of Britain tried to reach Nixon by phone to discuss the crisis.

''Can we tell them, 'No?' " Kissinger asked his assistant, Brent Scowcroft, who had relayed the request. ''When I talked to the president, he was loaded."

In March 1974, a month after the House voted to proceed with impeachment proceedings and five months before Nixon resigned, Kissinger fretted about the president's state of mind in a phone call with White House aide Alexander Haig.

''I am calling you about something the president said this morning which rather disturbed me," Kissinger said. ''He was in a rather sour mood."

''Yes, that is conceivable," Haig said.

Kissinger went on to complain that Nixon was being too tough on Israeli allies and ''has been just waiting for an opportunity to lay into them."

Now I tell you if he goes publicly after the Israelis, he might as well start a war," he said.

Haig said Nixon was, ''just unwinding," and mentioned that the president had told him to fetch the ''football," the briefcase with the codes to unleash nuclear weapons.

''For what?" Kissinger asked.

''He is going to drop it on the Hill," Haig said. ''What I am saying is, don't take him too seriously."

At the time, Kissinger was national security adviser and secretary of state.

But Nixon did not tell him everything. On Oct. 12, 1973, Kissinger knew Nixon was announcing a new vice president to replace Spiro Agnew, who had resigned. But Kissinger did not know whom Nixon had chosen.

On the phone with Haig, Kissinger said he could go along with Nelson Rockefeller -- ''that gives me no pain" -- or anyone except former Texas governor John Connally -- ''a no-no." Nixon picked Gerald Ford.

A window into detente, the transcripts also show the rapport that Kissinger and Soviet Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin developed even in times of extreme tension and bitter public words.

They established a channel as early as 1969, often meeting without secretaries or interpreters.

Kissinger was having lunch with Dobrynin when Democratic Senator Hubert Humphrey called to complain about the Soviets rearming Arabs faster than Washington was sending planes to Israel.

''How do we know the Russians aren't fooling us?" Humphrey demanded.

''If the Russians are fooling us, we know what we will have to do," Kissinger replied.

The records show his Soviet guest was in the dining room with him during this talk.

Although Kissinger's days were piled high with foreign crises, he found time for celebrities, chatting with Frank Sinatra, Bob Hope, Warren Beatty, and others. John Wayne called to tell him he had an eye problem, one iris was opening faster than the other.

''It's not just politics, but also in many respects about American culture," said Karl Weissenbach, who oversaw opening of records as director of the Nixon presidential materials staff at the archives.*

UP.
Loved this. I wonder how George W. Bush's tenure in office will look, twenty or thirty years down the road, when we know what's really going on.

[Monte Smith]

I love this, too. In one place Kissenger mentions to a third party that the president was drunk, and the headline to the piece reads like PRESIDENT IMMOBILIZED WITH INTOXICANTS.

Well, whatever. I hope Nixon had a good time. Even Presidents of the United States occassionally deserve a good time. Not to take everything back to Clinton, but the one President I have for sure seen with my own eyes drunk was Bubba and it was huh-larious. This is not Clinton bashing, cause I was charmed at this. This was video broadcast on one of the cable news networks, I think: Clinton and Jacques Chirac had a meal together at a swank French spot and they had obviously enjoyed a couple of glasses of wine together. They emerged from the restaurant and while Chirac's instinct was to immediately walk away from the television cameras, Clinton, given his outgoing nature, decided to immediately walk toward them. Give the reporters the glad hand, get a little of that human touch doncha know. Clinton doesn't have any prepared remarks but he is just bubbling with enthusiasm from his high-minded conversation with Chirac and he's smashed. "Do you, do you, do you know what my good friend Jacques Chirac and I agreed upon over lunch?" Clinton asks the assembled press of the world. "We agreed that many thousands of years ago, our common ancestors emerged together on the continent of Africa." Clinton beamed. He was so excited! He looked around at everyone like, "Isn't that great? Doesn't that rank as a monumental thought?" *Stop the presses!* Jacques Chirac was like, "Holy moly, let's go get some coffee, Bill." Yuk yuk yuk.

But I'm glad he had a good time. Even Presidents of the United States deserve now and again a good time.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

A funny thing about Nixon. In today's political climate he'd be considered a moderate Republican.

Things change.

[BFrank]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

A funny thing about Nixon. In today's political climate he'd be considered a moderate Republican.

Things change.

THAT'S scarey, huh?

[clinthopson]

Originally Posted by BFrank

THAT'S scarey, huh?

The Nixon gang were scary, the current regime is terrifying.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Well think about it. Under whose presidency was Affirmative Action started? I think Nixon gave us OSHA and the EPA too. Am I correct? And I'm pretty sure a few other government programs that get under the skin of the modern Republican Party was started by Nixon. What about wage and price controls? I'm not saying the cat was a nice guy, but who'd you rather have running things, Nixon or Tom DeLay?

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Nixon WAS a moderate Republican. Goldwater -- who had lost to Johnson -- was a conservative. What was repulsive about Nixon wasn't extreme conservatism, it was his shallowness and his mean-spiritedness.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

Nixon WAS a moderate Republican. Goldwater -- who had lost to Johnson -- was a conservative. What was repulsive about Nixon wasn't extreme conservatism, it was his shallowness and his mean-spiritedness.

sdc steve nails it on the head.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

A funny thing about Nixon. In today's political climate he'd be considered a moderate Republican.

Things change.

No, Nixon's policies as President don't fit neatly on a left-right scale. He was like Dick Gephardt today on economic issues and to John Ashcroft's right on law/order/civil liberties issues. On war and peace he's part Bush, part Nader, although the analogies don't work as well here.

SDC Steve wrote his post while I was composing this one. I fully agree with his last sentence.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by patricia

UP.
Loved this. I wonder how George W. Bush's tenure in office will look, twenty or thirty years down the road, when we know what's really going on.

He could go down as a great President, a terrible one, or a mediocre one. There's no way to tell without a crystal ball that tells us what will happen with Iraq, North Korea, Al Qaeda, and Islamic fundamentalism in the next few years.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

He could go down as a great President, a terrible one, or a mediocre one. There's no way to tell without a crystal ball that tells us what will happen with Iraq, North Korea, Al Qaeda, and Islamic fundamentalism in the next few years.

Gordon, do you really believe some of the stuff you say, or do you just do it to be provocative?

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

He could go down as a great President,

Of course, one can always pray for miracles.

One very die hard democrat recently told me that he is going to vote for Bush. "He alone created the mess and he shall now deal with it. I am not gonna bail them out. Otherwise they will later take credit for what went well after it was fixed and blame the new guy for what went wrong" she sed.

[lynn]

If I recall the presidential gossip mill correctly, Kissinger even made the statement that you couldn't call Nixon after 5PM because he was always loaded.

As far as his term was concerned, he even had to watch out for J Edgar, and look at his Vice Presidents. Jeez and on top of that he had the Vietnam War. Monte says fun, I call it escape from the reality of a train wreck of a presidency.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Uli

One very die hard democrat recently told me that he is going to vote for Bush. "He alone created the mess and he shall now deal with it. I am not gonna bail them out. Otherwise they will later take credit for what went well after it was fixed and blame the new guy for what went wrong" she sed.

That person had a sex-change operation mid-sentence?

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Pete C

That person had a sex-change operation mid-sentence?

No, my bad. Its a she. I can certify that.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Uli

Its a she. I can certify that.

She certainly seems certifiable.

[Gordon B]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Gordon, do you really believe some of the stuff you say, or do you just do it to be provocative?

Pete, from now on after this post I'm only responding to you when you posts are related to the substance of what I say. If you want to explain why you think (if that's your opinion) that Bush will go down as an awful President no matter what happens in the future, I'll respond if I feel that I have something interesting to say.

[frankiepop]

If I recall the presidential gossip mill correctly, Kissinger even made the statement that you couldn't call Nixon after 5PM because he was always loaded.

As far as his term was concerned, he even had to watch out for J Edgar, and look at his Vice Presidents. Jeez and on top of that he had the Vietnam War. Monte says fun, I call it escape from the reality of a train wreck of a presidency.

well, yea, but are u jumping to conclusions a little here? I mean are u saying that this was nixon's behavior through his tenure in office or just towards the stressful end? you may be right but i remember that even erlichman bristled over reports of nixon drinking while president. erlichman claimed that he did not. i remember the republicans attacked oliver stone for showing nixon slamming some high balls, which was a silly attack as it more reflected nixon's generation than judgment.

it reminds me of crawjo and dolan's perposterous diatribes on moore's mere editing process. it reflects a complete misunderstanding and incomprehension of art and how art is made, so silly.

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by frankiepop

it reminds me of crawjo and dolan's perposterous diatribes on moore's mere editing process. it reflects a complete misunderstanding and incomprehension of art and how art is made, so silly.

Now hold on here, frankie. Everything depends upon the editing process in Moore's "art" (I would not call it that). I mean, there are editing processes and editing processes. Moore has an editing process that portrays his political enemies in their worst possible light without attempting to understand or explicate the arguments of his foes in their own terms. That's dishonest, and it is cheap.

Oliver Stone does a similar thing, but his vision is darker and more artful. You can't confuse a Stone picture with a documentary, like you can a Moore film.

[lynn]

[QUOTE=frankiepop]well, yea, but are u jumping to conclusions a little here? I mean are u saying that this was nixon's behavior through his tenure in office or just towards the stressful end? you may be right but i remember that even erlichman bristled over reports of nixon drinking while president. erlichman claimed that he did not. i remember the republicans attacked oliver stone for showing nixon slamming some high balls, which was a silly attack as it more reflected nixon's generation than judgment.[QUOTE]

Let's just say I'm adding to the rumor mills' comprehensive body of work. I can take a little artistic license here. It's been 30 years.

[GoodSpeak]

Wanting to call in an air stike and bomb Congress is a secret wish of all disgruntled Americans.

No mystery here...

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

Wanting to call in an air stike and bomb Congress is a secret wish of all disgruntled Americans.

No mystery here...

That's actually pretty funny. I've recently had a secret wish that someone would drop a bomb or two on the Mass. State House.

[bostontricky]

Originally Posted by jesus marion joseph

That's actually pretty funny. I've recently had a secret wish that someone would drop a bomb or two on the Mass. State House.

Nahh, but a surgical strike on Finneran and his closest dozen minions might do wonders for the place.

[jesus marion joseph]

Originally Posted by bostontricky

Nahh, but a surgical strike on Finneran and his closest dozen minions might do wonders for the place.

I agree, but my wrath was directed more at Romney and his anal-retentive legal counsel, Dan Winslow. If they spent the time they're taking to deny out-of-state gay wedding licenses to some serious problems, we'd probably all be better off.

BTW, if you ever go to the Registry of Deeds in Dedham (don't know why you would, but who knows), there's a big framed poster on the wall with pictures of all of the members of the Norfolk County Bar Association, including ol' Danny Boy.

[SinginSumo]

Originally Posted by Gordon B

He could go down as a great President, a terrible one, or a mediocre one. There's no way to tell without a crystal ball that tells us what will happen with Iraq, North Korea, Al Qaeda, and Islamic fundamentalism in the next few years.

Does this guy ever read newspapers or watch the news on TV? News magazines? ANYTHING? Another here that is blinded either by the complacency of a very comfortable lifestyle or just plain ol' stupidity. Either way, easily led and ripe pickin's for the malevolent powers that be.

Me? I'm just glad to be rich and living like a fat cat.

Stone's JFK was pretty well done, I thought. Plus, it basically followed Garrisons book to the letter anyway. Hell, Garrison was even in the movie.

His Nixon movie sucked. I don't care if it was accurate or not. It was a snoozer.

[frankiepop]

whatever monte, but as far as art goes, you dont know fuck about art...and i not going to mill over your insipid analysis of moore...