Greg Osby - Public

[Librarian]

Greg Osby's new record is a live album recorded in New York City earlier this year. There's a mix of tunes that were recorded on Osby's last studio album Inner Circle as well as some standards. Osby is joined by Nicholas Payton on trumpet, Robert Hurst on bass, Megumi Yonezawa on piano, Rodney Green on drums and special guest Joan Osborne on vocals.

The band is tight and has an excellent sound together live. There is a bit of a difference between this and his last live recording - the somewhat lo-fi DAT recording Banned in New York. Osby and Patton make a particularly interesting front line on the old Parker and Gillespie standard "Shaw Nuff." Their reading of the melody is fun with the trumpet and alto saxophone intertwined during the statement of the urgent melody and one of the two leads (or both) playing a one note tag just after the melody statement. Then the group enters a blasting improvisation.

Finally, there is a version of the standard "Lover Man" with Joan Osborne singing. This works very well - Osborne's voice is appropriately sultry and she sings very well. The group backs her nicely, especially the leader who floats around her vocals with a beautiful light tone.

The band works very well in this context - Osby and Payton are a very interesting front line and the new piano player lives up to his billing (big shoes to fill replacing jason Moran.) Fans of mainstream jazz should be very happy with the results.

[Stuckinagroove]

ooooo, I want this.

[frankiepop]

Librarian...you disappoint me... ...always discuss the cover...it may be the most important aspect of a cd...


anyway...at least on THIS cd ...what are the credits for the cover????


basquiat???????????????.........the cd cover...just fantastic..i am gonna get it ...the cover is worth the $$$ alone.it's a bargain!

[Librarian]

Sorry there, FP... it would make a cool record cover wouldn't it? Sad to say that album art is becoming a "lost art."

[frankiepop]

i was just curious if
it was basquiat...i still love
that cover...if it is
a rip then it is a good rip.....
i dont think it would have
come to be without basquiat...

what's great art for anyway?? but for making cool cd covers...

btw, who is given credit for the cd cover work????

[jazzjock251]

The artist for Greg Osby's "Public" is NY- based Easton Davy. There is definitely more to his influences and inspiration than Basquiat. Check out these eGalleries of his work.

http://www.g-candelier.com/VG/ARTS/p...VY/fichdav.htm

http://www.finesite.webart.ru/animat...lvage/salv.htm

http://www.arteryonline.com/artists/.../index_ed.html

[mke]

Hmm... I hope the cover doesn't bring Osby any bad luck!

[Mike Schwartz]

I was at the Jazz Standard [club] in NYC one of the nights they were recording this CD which was January 20 & 21

I like Osby, but came away dissapointed with what I heard from 2 sets I heard. Payton was not in his best form.
Playing trumpet hard as he does night after night is a high wire act...having seen him on a few occasions over about a six month period, he was having a bit of a 'chops' problem. I preface that by saying a bunch of trumpeters would love to be able to fire as well as Nicholas being a bit off, but to my ears and what I saw, he was having [over this period and including this session] a slight stamina problem and did not have full command of his best upper register stuff.

A couple of months earlier he was covering it up a lot on his electric band, which was as easy as stepping on a switch or working a wah-wah pedal.

As far as Ms. Osborne's participation, there were more than a few "Look, that's Joan Osborne!" mentions from the audience. It was pointed out to me that she's a name in the pop world,and knew nothing of her until seeing and hearing her that evening. Whether she came to the club both nites to record I do not know.
My impression of her part was that of a person with a very pretty voice doing a sort of characterization of a Billie Holiday type. She wasn't all that comfortable looking while doing it, while the band kind of played down to her so that she could be comfotable while she sang. If the vocalist were a real jazz singer, he or she would have just went for the tune, instead of the tip-toe act that she did.

Although I don't think it went all that well,I credit Osby and Blue Note for bringing the name onto the recording, for exposure to jazz. It wouldn't be a giant leap to think that a person who checks out this CD for Ms. Osborne, may pick up another Osby or BN recording.

Needless to say, I won't be picking this one up...

[jazzjock251]

Hey Mike Swartz,

Well, I picked Greg Osby's "Public" up the day it was released and I'm quite pleased with that choice. And I don't detect any chops issues with Payton at all. One unbiased and careful listen to his blazing solos on "Shaw-Nuff" and "Summertime" should make that clear. I can't hear the upper range issue you speak of either. Maybe you were expecting something else, like a lot of high notes perhaps? Although clearly not on Osby's level as far as sheer knowledge and experience are concerned, Payton fares exceptionally well on this live date, in my opinion. They communicate onstage like old buddies (even though Osby must be at least 13 or 14 years Payton's senior...)

And Joan Osborne sounds superb. In fact, just as well as any "jazz" singer on the scene. The woman is a true singer of songs. She squeezed the essence of the lyric out in her vocal performance - which is a difficult thing to do since there are thousands of verions of "Lover Man" already in existence. I don't know how you're listening but I can't hear one Billie Holiday reference in her delivery. None. Osby's obligatos swirling around her create an incredible mood, like the classic recordings. I happen to know that he loves Ben Webster because I've read him speaking about it on several occasions.

I hope that folks give credit where it's due and not simply listen to music with the intent to bash. It sounds like you didn't like this recording just because it's your choice not to like it. Maybe you didn't have a good seat that night or something. Or maybe you just never liked what you've heard of Nicholas Payton. I hope you can listen again and get something more positive from it next time. Personally, I can't stop playing it. I find "Public" to be amazing and quite inspirational. Those cats are playing hard for real.

Everyone hears things dramatically differently, I guess.

JJ

[jazzfiend]

Public is an excellent cd, with everyone in fine form (including my man Nick).
Very impressed with the young lady on piano.

Now Mike, we're still awaiting your critique of Fly, feat. Mark Turner & the boys.

[Gary Sisco]

I buy Osby's CDs as soon as they're released and dig this one very much. For me, it's something of a return to form, as Inner Circle used material that was a few years old when released and St Louis Shoes was good but Lundfeld's idea, and I preferred his earlier Blue Notes. This one kicks butt, though, Osbourne or not. That's what program buttons are for and she's only on one track. The rest is smoking shit from my man Ozz, and if Payton's having any chops problems, they're certainly not in evidence here. Good one, from one of the few real originals of his generation, hornwise and compositionwise.

[Mike Schwartz]

Mind you, multipal takes were blown over the 2 days the CD was recorded, and they get to pick the ones that came off best.

We got the CD at our station, and I played from it on my weekly show, and liked the track that I put on this morning.

Hey jazzjock;
1st, get my name right if you're going to use my full name...it's SCHwartz.
Secondly, are you implying that your statement below pertains to me?
I was at one of the nights of the recording [2 sets worth] and gave my impressions of what I heard and saw.Period.

"I hope that folks give credit where it's due and not simply listen to music with the intent to bash"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now Mike, we're still awaiting your critique of Fly, feat. Mark Turner & the boys."
jazzfeind,
I did on Frank Kimbrough's thread...it was Frank who hipped me to the gig a few days before the show.

[mke]

Originally Posted by Rainman

St Louis Shoes was good but Lundfeld's idea

Hey Sisco, you're not blaming Lundvall for Iraq now, are you?

[Gary Sisco]

Why not? Ain't anyone in Washington that's to blame for it. :-)

[HLJ]

I have quite a few Osby discs and his live Cd's are my favorites."Banned In NY"is one of my top 5 all-time albums and 'Public' is #2 on my Osby list.I may have never heard Payton play better and Yonezawa is the first pianist other than Moran that I have enjoyed playing with Osby.Great cd.Peace and all that.

[Stuckinagroove]

Loved it. Even better than Banned in NY. This album makes me want to buy St. Louis Shoes, I love the takes on the standards. Summertime as with a free funk vibe is very nice, almost unrecognizable. Bernies tune, a song I usually hate hearing a jam sessions sounds amazing- the interplay between greg and nick is nice. I had no idea Nick could play like this, he definitely sounds on edge.

Rodney Green is killin'! I actually saw him with christian mcbride when he was 18, and he was killin' then too. I was bummed at first that Jason Moran wasn't on the keys but Megumi more than holds her own. She actually sounds a little like Jason, she reminded me a little of Bill Carrothers too for some reason. Joan Osborne sounds surprisingly good, it just seems a little awkward- it doesn't really fit in with rest of the tracks. It reminds me of Miles' "Sorcerer" when he randomly had a vocalist at the end of his album.
Definitely in my top 5 of the year so far.

[Gary Sisco]

Listened to this one again last night. This is prime Osby on tracks 1-6 out of 7. Four stars. Osbourne, we could all have done without. She doesn't swing even once or even come close; every phrase begins and stays right on top of the beat, as one would expect from a rock singer. But program that one out, and you have Osby's best record since "Banned In New York."

[frankiepop]

it's good music and everything but i think a lot of space is wasted here when we could be discussing the cover which is much better than the music in this case...as good as the music is...and the music is gooood...

[Mike Schwartz]

I'm not here to get into a pissing contest with anyone... further listens confirms [to me] that Payton is not in his best form on this date.

Osby plays great throughout... ditto on forget the Osbourne track.

[jazzjock251]

Hello all.

I have to disagree with both Rainman and Schwartz about Joan Osborne's performance on "Public'. (No pissing contest intended. Just opinions.) It appears that she is being held to a standard that Osby may not have been reaching for or was concerned with. I don't have the feeling that he called her for her "swing feel" and even Osby himself isn't what one would necessarily call a "swinger". I could never imagine him calling on some traditional jazz singer to compliment his work - it wouldn't fit. He's been known to make some unusual choices and bold moves many times in the past. Her involvement here sounds textural as opposed to technical. Osborne definitely delivers on Lover Man, in my opinion. I can truly feel the lyrics the way she interprets them. It's like she knows what they really mean. She holds her own as a pure vocalist - just as good as Cassandra Wilson, Diane Reeves, Diana Krall, Jane Monheit, or dare I say, Nora Jones would have done. She's a real musician that transcends the typical "female vocalist" categorization. I have several CD performances and have seen her live a few times. I can see why Osby made the choice to use her - for her sound. Her tone and intonation are on point too.

I think cover is definitely amazing and ties in very well with the concept of the music. The artist is Easton Davy. There are 3 other pieces included in the series on the CD insert. Actually, the insert is two-sided. If you flip it, you can use the other side with the photos as a cover also. Very cool idea.

I saw Osby's band 4 times at the Village Vanguard this week. (Wed-Sat) All I can say at this point is that a new standard for jazz performance has been forged by this man and his group. His playing has an almost surreal and immediate intensity to it and everything appears deliberate. He played a lot of non-stop pieces, although he did address the crowd a few more times than usual - basically to bring us up to date on what was behind the previous tunes as far as his concepts and direction. He uses some tricky instrumental cues while playing and the band stopped on a dime wherever they were in the music and would modulate to another piece (at another tempo!) immediately. They must rehearse forever to do this because it was always seamless and perfect. They seemed to change keys and complete tunes like this. I sat there with my mouth open every night and I wish that more artists brought the fire this way more often. They were playing for keeps all week.

The pianist, Megumi Yonezawa actually (again, in my opinion) has a lot more going for her than Moran. She seems to be more sensitive to the requirements of Osby's group and is less a maverick than Moran. who relies too much on histrionics for my taste. A lot of what he does sometimes sounds random and not studied or logical to my ears. I think he should have stuck around and learned from Osby a few more years. Everyone isn't always qualified to be a leader. But then, I'm a saxophonist and only a mediocre pianist so I'm no judge on what it takes to play piano. For me, Yonezawa has greater dynamic range too, I think. The bassist, Matt Brewer (monster chops and sound) is quite another great find for Osby and the new drummer, Tommy Green is fun to watch and hear. He adds some great orchestration to the already complex environment that Osby has developed.

Although they played a lot of standards the real treat was listening to them plow through Osby's twisted originals. What is he thinking? But then again, when Osby plays standards they sounded like his originals. All in all, a fantastic four consecutive nights well spent and an experience that has affected me profoundly.


Cheers,
JJ

[jazzfiend]

JJ, thanks for the perceptive post. I'm pretty much on the same wave length, having seen the same band recently, minus Payton. Don't know why Sisco was looking for Osborne to 'swing', as that was clearly not Osby's intent. Her reading of the lyrics is spot on, as well as her phrasing & overall sound. Her job was well done, and I just love what Greg is doing behind her.

[Stuckinagroove]

Nice post. I have to disagree with everything you said about Moran, though.

[jazzjock251]

Stuckinagroove,

I can dig you having a difference in opinion about my comment on Moran. In fact, that's what gets the ball rolling. How boring everything would be if we all agreed on everything? However, I do have some follow-up comments.

Well, I didn't join this thread in an effort to beat up on my fellow musicians. Far from it. I have too much respect for the art form and everone's efforts (good or otherwise) to go in that direction. There's too much of that going on anyway. I'd rather attempt to enlighten and bring to the table some opinions that are based on some personal investigation and not only mere "likes and dislikes". Everyone has an opinion - or should.

I'm a heavy transcriber of what I consider great jazz solos and I've written out and analyzed over a few hundred from Tatum to Monk, Dolphy, Rollins, Ellington, Hodges, Hawkins, Coltrane,Hancock, Cecil Taylor, Pullen, ..... all the way to contemporary giants like Geri Allen, Kenny Kirkland, The Marsalises, Wallace Roney, Osby, Joshua Redman, Lovano, Frisell, Potter, Metheny., etc... In other words... A LOT.

I'm particularly interested in seeing if players are really delivering the goods or are kind of mystifying the public behind a cloud of smoke created by their respective labels and the general jazz press and media, who are sometimes obsessed with embracing a young player too early just to get the "scoop" on a hot new arrival to the scene. Many times the musicians don't measure up to the hype. I transcribe for study primarily but I have to find out for myself to see if a guy is really just "landing on keys" accidentally or if his playing shows of a lot of work put in.

Recently I did this along with a few friends of mine, also musicians, with choosen solos of tenor saxophonists Joshua Redman, David Murray, Chris Potter, David S. Ware, Joe Lovano, James Carter and Mark Turner. The effort was to see who were the most effective and detail oriented and who were "sonic" players - not so concerned with the form or chord changes but perhaps the energy and sound. We were not attempting to pit any one against the other but to figure out the methods of each player. Since this wasn't a contest it's not important to list our findings, as the results may infuriate some fans of the aforementioned players and I'd rather not go that route. Let's just say that a lot was learned and some tenor players take more than their fair share of shortcuts.

Even more recently we are in the process of transcribing pianists, Matt Ship, Jason Moran, Marcus Roberts and D.D. Jackson. I was assigned to transcribe three Moran solos, two of which are completed along with complete analysis. I found a lot of of repitition and complete abandon in many instances where there was absolutely no relationship between what he played and was the chord center was. There's a lot of flash and abandon with energetic flurries but when you slow the passages down and pair them against the tonal center, what Moran chooses to play is sometimes quite reckless and irresponsible and isn't related to the music at all. It's like he's playing a "vibe" but not the tune. This may be acceptable to some musicians and fans of the music but it is pretty careless and is interpreted (by me) as an escapist act. Monk, Tatum, Hancock, Tyner, Wynton Kelly, Bud Powell, etc... never played throwaway pasages just for show or to make people go "Wow!" Everything counted and was done for a reason. To play "anything, anywhere, anytime" makes it easy for weak players to fool people into thinking there's a lot going on. Contorted facial expressions and grimaces help a lot too. But really, playing like this adds to the notion shared by laypersons that "all jazz sounds the same".

Anyway, my results prove nothing. We are all drawn to different stimuli and are borne to respond to sound vibrations in sometimes radically different ways. More power to anyone who makes a choice and definitely knows what they like and don't like. That's the bottom line. There's nothing worse than someone who is always "undecided". Thanks for having an opinion.

JJ

[gnhrtg]

As you say jj, we do do have different tastes on what we do and don't like. I, for instance, could not care less how much people stick to changes, whether it is a conscious decision or not, if their solos have a logic of their own or if they do so with enough conviction - both of which are quite subjective. I think this is more or less what you mean when you say "playing a 'vibe' but not the [changes of the] tune."

It might happen to be, empirically, that those who don't stick to changes are also more "clueless," broadly construed, overall but I do not take following, playing, the changes as an independent criterion by which to judge a musician.

[Gary Sisco]

I was looking for her to swing as that might have made her performance at least interesting, whereas to me it just sounds rote. It's not a particularly exciting song to begin with, if the vocalist isn't going to do anything but sing the song straight. It's way too much of a chestnut for that. It's been done, too many times, and too many times much, much better and more creatively. If the singer's not going to do anything with it, why even bother? Whatever. That's what programming buttons are for.

And I completely disagree that Osby doesn't swing. He swings like a motherfucker, albeit not in a traditional manner. Thank goodness. He's his own man, all the way around, and he sounds like a cat who came up when he did and was aware of the sounds around him -- all of them. That's what I dig about him.

[jazzfiend]

Sisco, I hear where ya coming from. But if ya really want to dig singers who know how to swing, pull out some of those memorable sessions by the 'ol Murphster, by golly.

[Librarian]

Interesting thoughts, JJ, I hope you stick around and keep posting. I didn't get involved in the musicians vs. non-musicians review thread, but maybe this is one of the differences in the appreciation of Jason Moran - personally, I love his music, but I do not play an instrument and have little knowledge of the nuts and bolts of how a particular improvisation is constructed. I do try to be a very careful listener, because I know that I go by feel in my perception of the music.

A friend of mine who is a saxophone player jokingly chides me for being a big David Murray fan, pointing out some deficiencies in his playing style. My response of "But, he's so exciting!" usually falls on deaf ears.

[Nate Dorward]

JJ: could you say a bit about which of Moran's solos you were transcribing or even which spots you object to? I'm not sure what I ultimately think of Moran but I must confess I don't quite understand why sidestepping the chord structure need be a sign of fraudulence. Does he engage in showoffy behaviour on the bandstand as you imply? The one time I saw him he was actually quite reserved, but it was a slightly unusual situation (he was the bought-in guest-star for a Francois Carrier concert--I felt some pity for Moran because Carrier's trio simply blared over Moran. Thank the Canada Council for this mess....).

I still don't know what I make of Moran--haven't heard The Bandwagon or the solo album but have heard his first three releases plus most of his work with Osby, & while I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who's developed a very personal style, unmistakable for anyone else, none of the albums I have is entirely satisfactory. I was just listening to Black Stars & while it's quite interesting it feels like a project that needed more roadtesting before they went into the studio (the relationship with Rivers in particular).

I still don't understand the love for Banned in NY, which among other things contains the only Moran I've actually disliked--those long passages where he just seesaws back & forth.

[Gary Sisco]

I should have said, above, that it's Osby's best record since "Invisible Hand."

[jazzjock251]

I should have said, above, that it's Osby's best record since "Invisible Hand."

"Best" is a tricky word to use when describing art. I appreciate all the Osby releases for entirely different reasons. They're all favorites and I keep them in heavy rotation.

"Symbols of Light, A Solution" has some great string writing and arranging by Osby and they almost collectively sound like a "fifth member" of his quartet. It's such a wonderful texture, masterfully utilized by one of today's true thinkers. His connection with Jason Moran is in full bloom here.

"Inner Circle" has got to be one of the most definitive ensemble recordings of all time, if nothing but for the imaginative writing and usage of a stellar lineup. Sometimes recordings with players on this level wind up with the musicians tripping over each other trying to find the spotlight so that it can shine on them alone. Osby has a keen sensibility in finding just the perfect casts of players each time who respectfully compliment each other and interpret the hell out of his really difficult music. I've transcribed many of the songs and solos on this CD and I can firmly say that this is an incredible work, theoretically, technically, conceptually and spritually. It's as complete as they come.

"St. Louis Shoes" is a great example of contemporary jazz arranging. I held my breath when playing the CD for the first time because of some of the titles. How could Osby advance upon Monk's "Light Blue" or Handy's "St. Louis Blues"? The songs on this CD have been done so much that they offered little room for variation OR embellishment. Of course, Osby delivered with some of the freshest versions that I have ever heard. They all bear his signature stylings and reharmonizations. His horn soli section on "East St. Louis Toodle -Oo is worth the price of the CD alone. I have NEVER heard that kind of melodicism over such a formal and traditional song structure. It is perfect and worthy of transcription and analysis by every curious musician seeking a fresh approach to this music.

JJ