Improvisation: Its Nature and Practice in Music By Derek Bailey

SilentKnowledge · June-12th-2004, 12:55 AM

Hello all,

I would like to ask you members that are aware of this book if you would recommend or consider this an essential read. I am quite interested in this book & a fan of Bailey. Posting your thoughts is encouraged.

Thank you.

Regards,

Alexander

Cem · June-12th-2004, 03:10 AM

Also, it may be useful to discuss & compare different editions/pressings. I still haven't got my hands on it either.

Bill Ashline · June-12th-2004, 05:36 AM

Definitely recommended, but you may also want to take a look at the new title on Derek Bailey coming out on Verso by Ben Watson. Due out soon and may already be available.

http://www.versobooks.com/books/tuvw...k_bailey.shtml

Nathaniel Catchpole · June-12th-2004, 07:55 AM

Would also recommend this, but be aware that it's about improvisation in music, not about improvised music the genre, which occupies only a small section of the book, excellent book despite/because of this.

Joe Milazzo · June-12th-2004, 04:54 PM

Highly recommended. You may not agree with every claim Bailey makes, but it makes for generally fascinating -- and not overly techincal -- reading.

More than that, IMPROVISATION has been terrifically influential. I almost can't read a WIRE review without being reminded of this monograph.

Mine own question: has anyone seen the television series / video that was produced in assocaition with this / Bailey's revision of the text (memory foggy on this point)? Are copies of the broadcast generally available?

Jon Abbey · June-13th-2004, 02:56 AM

I saw it at Tonic a few years ago, during a Company Week, they showed it on consecutive nights. I found it mildly interesting, much like the book. I particularly remember a segment showing a rehearsal for one of Zorn's early gamepieces, Cobra, I think, which was as embarrassing and amateurish a display of musicmaking as I've pretty much ever witnessed.

gnhrtg · June-13th-2004, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

I found it mildly interesting, much like the book. I particularly remember a segment showing a rehearsal for one of Zorn's early gamepieces, Cobra, I think, which was as embarrassing and amateurish a display of musicmaking as I've pretty much ever witnessed.

They're trying and not falling back on readily available gestures, no? It's "dangerous" so might not, indeed perhaps should not, always come out - especially in the early stages. Of course, I haven't seen the said segment so what you say might hold true for me, i.e., I would agree with it, all these notwithstanding.

Gary Sisco · June-13th-2004, 07:57 AM

Bailey's book is excellent and well written. Everyone interested in improvisation should read it.

Jon Abbey · June-13th-2004, 10:56 AM

gokhan, I like some of Zorn's early game pieces a lot. I'm commenting on this specifically, the segment shown in this TV series. yow.

AntManBee · June-15th-2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ashline

you may also want to take a look at the new title on Derek Bailey coming out on Verso by Ben Watson. Due out soon and may already be available.

It's definitely available now. I saw it today in a bookshop window but I didn't have the chance to get a closer look at it.

Jon Abbey · June-15th-2004, 06:39 PM

the Watson book is supposed to be out July 1, that's when both Amazon and Amazon UK say, and when the release party is.

Nate Dorward · June-17th-2004, 08:02 PM

I thought Cobra was Zorn's last, or near-last gamepiece, not an early one? Or I guess you mean that that was the earliest phase of his career. Never mind.

The improvisation book's great. Both editions are worth having because of some of the changes of material.

lazarus · June-24th-2004, 10:50 AM

I got Ben Watson´s new book about Bailey in the mail today. It looks very promising with a chronological history on Bailey´s career. A huge discography, the complete "invisible jukebox" from the The Wire. 450 pages and also some fine pictures.
I´m looking forward reading this on my holiday this summer.

Jon Abbey · June-24th-2004, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazarus

I got Ben Watson´s new book about Bailey in the mail today. It looks very promising with a chronological history on Bailey´s career. A huge discography, the complete "invisible jukebox" from the The Wire. 450 pages and also some fine pictures.
I´m looking forward reading this on my holiday this summer.

my copy is en route, is it true that Evan Parker isn't referenced once?

lazarus · June-24th-2004, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

my copy is en route, is it true that Evan Parker isn't referenced once?

Jon, it´s definitively not true. According to the index his name is mentioned on more than 40 different places in the book.

Jon Abbey · June-24th-2004, 06:44 PM

interesting. I wish I remember where I heard that now...

SilentKnowledge · June-25th-2004, 04:01 AM

Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated. I'll try to purchase both Improvisation & the Bailey biography.

Thanks again.

Regards,

Alexander

Rob C · July-23rd-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

my copy is en route, is it true that Evan Parker isn't referenced once?

I was just flipping through the Watson book at Borders. EP is mentioned often, and in most of the instance I spotted, the mention if followed quickly by a diss.

I only looked through the book for a few minutes, but it looked rather pedantic to me....

Jon Abbey · July-23rd-2004, 02:51 PM

yeah, I have the Watson/Bailey book now although I haven't read any of it yet, still slogging through the Prevost book on the rare occasions when I'm in the mood for that kind of thing.

lazarus · July-23rd-2004, 04:17 PM

I loved the first chapters about Baileys upbringing in Sheffield, his first steps as a working musician in the 50´s and about Joseph Holbrooke Trio in the 60´s because these chapters was very much based on long quotes from interviews with Bailey and he is very entertaining. Also the quotes from interviews withTony Oxley and Gavin Bryars in the long chapter about Joseph Holbrooke Trio is interesting and fun to read.
The last two thirds of the book is a little bit tedious but there are a lot of facts about recordings and about the Company Weeks.

lazarus · July-23rd-2004, 04:54 PM

.....oh, I forgot. Frank Zappa´s name is mentioned over 30 times in the text. In a book about Derek Bailey and the history of free improvisation!! I guess it tells more about Ben Watson than about the subject of the book. He just loves to refer to Zappa as often as he can. Also marxist and post modern theory.
But it´s ok with me. I still like the book pretty well.
If you have a strong interest In Bailey and free improvisation it´s worth the money and time.

Pete C · July-25th-2004, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob C

EP is mentioned often, and in most of the instance I spotted, the mention if followed quickly by a diss.

Sheesh, can't these kids keep their personal differences personal?

Rob C · July-26th-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Sheesh, can't these kids keep their personal differences personal?

I should clarify that it looked like Watson was doing most of the dissing of Parker.

SilentKnowledge · August-25th-2004, 11:17 PM

Well, I finnally purchased it! I actually purchased Derek Bailey & The Story of Free Improvisation first & completed that book. Now, I am going to read Improvisation: It's Nature & Practice in Music. So far so good. Mr. Bailey is a pretty good writer.

Thank you for all the comments members, much appreciated.

Regards,

Alexander

crawjo · September-5th-2004, 08:19 PM

I was flipping through the Watson book today at Borders and found it to be pretty ridiculous in spots. The author's Marxism and post-modernism really came through in a few phrases. Seems like it might be an interesting read, though.

Bill Ashline · September-6th-2004, 03:10 AM

Well, Watson is a music critic heavily influenced by the ideological critique of aesthetics emerging out of the Frankfurt School and Theodor Adorno's work in particular. This is his aesthetic, and he's pretty up front about it. What do you expect?

Gary Sisco · September-6th-2004, 06:55 PM

Nothing. As I do from all epigones.

Nathaniel Catchpole · September-9th-2004, 01:10 PM

Bill, being influenced by Adorno is no excuse for spending most of a review of a Xenakis reissue talking about audio recordings of Lenin's speeches because they both have crappy sound quality (but great content!) - and giving no other reason than that whatsoever. Finding poltical content/analogies is fine, making references to historical personalities seemingly just to show you know who they are is frankly silly.

mke · September-27th-2004, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ashline

Ben Watson

A few days ago I was listening to Resonance FM for the first time. They were playing a documentary where the journalist was talking to various members of a weird Parisian Frank Zappa sub-cult in a café. It's only when the host signed off with a cheery "This is Ben Watson saying goodbye" did I realise who it was. For someone with such an interest in anarchic/outside music, he has a very BBC voice.

upkerry11 · January-3rd-2006, 12:54 AM

Mine own question: has anyone seen the television series / video that was produced in assocaition with this / Bailey's revision of the text (memory foggy on this point)? Are copies of the broadcast generally available?[/QUOTE]

I have copies made from British telly and ma wondering if they are commercially available. I want ot UL them to DIME but not if you can buy them. I don't see them for sale on the web. Bill