Gentle Giant

[Clay Fink]

I'm tired of talking about trolls and unelected, psycho presidents. Let's talk about the British "prog" band from the 70s.

I first got into GG when "The Power and the Glory" came out. Up till then I was into the harder wanking prog bands like Yes and (embarrassingly) ELP. GG was different. Not fey like Genesis, not into long epics like Yes and not all flash like ELP. What they had were odd time signatures, shorter, interesting arrangements and little humor here and there. I started to listen to Mahavishnu and RTF about he same time, and GG's odd sound kind of lead me into jazz, I think. Greg Bendian actually cites them (ad dedicates the first Interzone disk to them) as opening his ears. I saw them like after "Free Hand" came out and they were an incredible live band. They fizzled out about 1980 after two or three, uninspiring later albums. The last one I really liked was "The Missing Piece".

Maybe a little pedestrian for you folks, but I was wondering if anyone else was into these guys.

Next: the Molly Hatchet thread.

[Dr Dave]

I have to confess, I recall seeing some Gentle Giant album covers in the way long ago, but never heard the band. What do you recommend?

PS: If you start a Molly Hatchet thread I will come to your house and vomit in your cereal.

[Uli]

Ban him too!

[Underhound]

I know there's one guy here who's a big Gentle Giant fan, but I forget his name.

[Gentle Giant]

Yeah, actually I like them!!!

In fact, along with Brian Wilson, they're my favorite music heroes. In spite of the fact that among them they play like 20-30 instruments, I've always considered them to be rock minimalists. Keyboardist/cellist/vibist Kerry Minnear, a graduate of the Royal Academy of Music who studied with composer/conductor Michael Tippett, wrote music that involved each member playing interlocking, often repeating, short lines that created a rich polyphony. Unlike the more linear compositions of Yes, which launched endless solos, Giant's music suggested a tight rock chamber ensemble.

I would recommend the Gentle Giant website for those interested in learning more; I have a number of reviews published there. A new live DVD with footage from 1974 and 1975 is available as of June 21 only online at www.gentlegiantmusic.com (run by Kerry and bassist/violinist Ray Shulman).

My top 3 Giant albums are In a Glass House (1973), Free Hand (1975), and Octopus (1972).

[Clay Fink]

GG: did you ever see them live.

My favorite concert was in '76 when I saw them in Central Park (right after "Interview" came out).

I agree with your best of list. "Octopus", "In a Glass House", "Power and the Glory", and "Free Hand" were GG at their peak. It's too bad that all the guys have dropped of the radar.

[Clay Fink]

Aparently, we can blame Derek Shulman for Bon Jovi and Men Without Hats.

Jesus.

[Chris D]

Saw them right after "The Missing Piece" cam out, from the fourth row of Chicago's wondrous Auditorium Theater, and it was phenomenal. Some dork-o in front of me "conducted" the whole show, but it was so good I didn't mind.
Their madrigal-style singing always amazed, especially on songs like "On Reflection." All around, all around, all around (cue the band).


When it was over did you have regrets, did you have regrets?
Or did you really think it was over yet, it was over yet?
Now that my life's my own I leave you behind, leaving you behind.
What ever made you think that I'd change my mind, change my mind?
That I'd change my mind. That I'd change my mind.

Originally Posted by Uli

Ban him too!

[AntManBee]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

Yeah, actually I like them!!!

GG, I'm surprised it took you 30 minutes before you replied to the original post! But you made up for the delay with a sizeable reply - it wouldn't fit with my small screen!

It was ages since I listened to Gentle Giant (the band that is, not our respected poster). But I used to play "In A Glass House" a fair bit. And "Octopus".

Clay, I always had you figured for a Black Oak Arkansas type.

[Gentle Giant]

Sadly, I never saw them live. On their last tour, in 1980, I was only 17 and couldn't get into the local venues they were playing. In truth, I came to them late and in a roundabout way. In 1978, I stayed up to watch Don Kirschner's Rock Concert because Jan and Dean were going to be on. They were on last, so I had to watch the whole show (which, I recall, included Herbie Mann). Two videos from Giant For a Day were played, and I was very intrigued. While that album is among their least progressive, I was not yet into the genre at all, although my friends were starting to get into Yes (this is Tormato time, remember) and I sensed this was in the same ballpark. I picked up the album and then was fortunate enough to become friendly with a guitarist who was a few years older than me and into Giant, King Crimson, and Chick Corea. I basically apprenticed to him over the course of a summer and learned a lot about what to listen for in music. Needless to say, this was an education that led to my proactive introduction to jazz, which occurred three years later when I decided to plunk down a few bucks for In a Silent Way.

For a time in the mid-late 80s, I published a progressive rock newsletter (hate the term fanzine) called On Reflection and I had the extremely pleasurable opportunity to interview Derek Shulman (Jewish progger!), who was then president of Atco, in person in his office at 75 Rock in NYC. I believe the interview is on the Giant website. As an A&R man at Polygram, he indeed signed Bon Jovi and Cinderella, but as he explained to me, "I've got 50 people on the payroll and they don't care if someone is progressive or not; they want to make sure they can get paid every other week" (paraphrased).

Ray Shulman, as I mentioned earlier, is a very successful producer who doesn't work as often as he could. Gary Green lives in the Chicago area and plays around a bit. John Weathers drummed for Man for several years, but recently has had to give it up due to an arthritic condition. Kerry has composed bits and pieces over the years, but mainly teaches I think. Original drummer Martin Smith died a couple of years ago.

People who might be interested but just want to commit to a single CD at this point might also want to check out the live Playing the Fool (1977). A two-LP set on a single CD, the set is highlighted by diverse instrumental sections, including the famous 5-man drum bash, a recorder quintet, acoustic guitar duets, and some classic wah-wah solos from Gary Green.

I would also recommend Acquiring the Taste (1971), which shows off Kerry's brilliance and versatility as he arranges and performs in a string quartet intro to one tune, does the same for a percussion section in another tune, and performs the title track as a Moog solo with very inventive voicings and harmonies. You can't compare him to Wakeman and Emerson because he's more about arrangements than being flashy.

I will state unequivocally that Ray Shulman is as fine a bass player as you'll find in progressive rock, Squire and others be damned.


I know it's only rock and roll but I like it!

[Clay Fink]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Clay, I always had you figured for a Black Oak Arkansas type.

Jim Dandy WAS the man, at one time.

I was just kidding about Molly Hatchet. They sucked.

[HenryMc]

If you guys keep this up I will have to start a discussion on Barkley James Harvest...you have been warned

[Mingus]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

I know it's only rock and roll but I like it!

You are in your element my friend. Go with it!

[Gentle Giant]

Giant On The Box (DVD)
Order online directly from the band!

At last: an official Gentle Giant concert DVD! It includes:

1974 concert from German TV station ZDF: Cogs in Cogs, Proclamation, Funny Ways, The Runaway, Experience, Features from Octopus, Advent of Panurge, So Sincere. [50 minutes]
1975 US TV concert from the Terrace Theater, Long Beach, California: Experience, Features from Octopus, Advent of Panurge, Funny Ways. [30 minutes]
Szene '74: rare footage from the 1974 tour from German television station BRW. [3 minutes]
Baroque & Roll: black & white footage and interview from Italian television. [22 minutes]
Photo gallery from Gary Green's private collection. [36 photos]
PLUS: Original music (during the DVD menus) by Kerry Minnear!

(We also still sell the Gentle Giant CDs "Under Construction" and "In a Glass House.")

Order online directly from the band!

[Dennis Gonzalez]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Clay, I always had you figured for a Black Oak Arkansas type.

Back then, Scotty boy, us oldsters would listen to Black Oak Arkansas (my wife Carol lived about 20 miles from Black Oak), then we'd hear the Groundhogs, and then King Crimson, and then Cream, and then Billy Joel (when he was good), and then Lynyrd Skynyrd, and then Pink Floyd, and then Yes,and then Alice Coltrane, and then Marshall Tucker, and the Jethro Tull and the Mahavishnu...you get the point...we never separated groups by genre or style, we just listened to everything.

[Alastair]

I have all the original Gentle Giant albums on vinyl, something which took me ten years to do pre-internet, "Civilian" being rather difficult to track down (a much maligned album which I rather like - much better than "Giant For A Day").

My man Dave (who came with me to AMPLIFY: Addition) introduced me to them in 1988. We first spoke in university holiday job hell at Marriott In-Flight Catering at Manchester Airport when I overheard him mention King Crimson to some uncomprehending co-worker. I also raved about Van Der Graaf Generator and we did a tape swap - my "Pawn Hearts" and "Still Life" against his "In A Glass House" and "Three Friends". The rest is history.

Derek Shulman may be responsible for some dreadful bands, but don't forget that Ray Shulman's One Little Indian label gave us The Sugarcubes, and therefore Bjork.

GG, thanks for the heads up about the DVD - I can feel an order coming on. Do you have "Under Construction"? Fascinating stuff. Who's have thought thar Kerry Minnear's demos could be that interesting?

[Gentle Giant]

I do indeed have Under Construction. I wouldn't recommend it for people starting out, because a lot of the stuff is rough and incomplete. But I agree that hearing Kerry's demos is enlightening. Playing their jigsaw arrangement on just acoustic piano is almost surreal. I can do without the sample archives, however.

What's amazing is that there are two unreleased tracks from Civilian on the set, plus the CD has another unreleased track, Heroes No More, which may be best tune from the sessions. The amazing thing is that the album is quite short to begin with; you'd think they had plenty of room for the other tunes.

[lazarus]

I´m a fan!
I had all their albums up to "In A Glass House" back in the days. "Acquiring the Taste" was my favorite. I guess I sold them sometime during the 80´s.

I have re-bought some of them on cd now. I was a little afraid that they were gonna sound dated but I enjoy very much listen to them again.
A unique and great band!

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by lazarus

I´m a fan!
I had all their albums up to "In A Glass House" back in the days. "Acquiring the Taste" was my favorite. I guess I sold them sometime during the 80´s.

I have re-bought some of them on cd now. I was a little afraid that they were gonna sound dated but I enjoy very much listen to them again.
A unique and great band!

Well said, and glad you found the thread.

In your GG CD purchases, have you gotten any later than In a Glass House? The key ones, especially for you, I think, would be Free Hand and Interview. The latter you might like a little better because there's more dissonance.

I don't own it, but you can find them both on a two-fer:

[lazarus]

GG, no I have not gotten any later than "In A Glass House" in my cd purchases.
Thank you for the recommendations. I´m gonna check them out!

[Chris D]

"Free Hand" is essential.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Chris D

"Free Hand" is essential.

I agree. The three standout tracks on "Side 1" are what most people gravitate towards on this album, but "Side 2" is equally as strong. Time to Kill, despite the long-outdated sound of the "Pong" video game in the intro, is chock full of wonderful surprises; "His Last Voyage" begins with delightfully snaky lines played by vibes, guitar, and bass, and includes a great wah-wah solo by Gary Green; and the instrumental "Talybont" (a village in Wales) is not-so-simply tremendous. The closer, "Mobile", I don't care for as much, but it's always nice to hear Ray Shulman jam on violin. Hitting the 30s on the charts, it was Giant's most successful release.

[jazzfiend]

GG is one of the greatest and most unique bands of all time. I own most of their output, and just last week replayed Power & the Glory (mandatory!)

Caught them live at Winterland in SF in the late 70's (can't recall who they opened for). Memorable performance!

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

Giant On The Box (DVD)
Order online directly from the band!

At last: an official Gentle Giant concert DVD! It includes:

1974 concert from German TV station ZDF: Cogs in Cogs, Proclamation, Funny Ways, The Runaway, Experience, Features from Octopus, Advent of Panurge, So Sincere. [50 minutes]
1975 US TV concert from the Terrace Theater, Long Beach, California: Experience, Features from Octopus, Advent of Panurge, Funny Ways. [30 minutes]
Szene '74: rare footage from the 1974 tour from German television station BRW. [3 minutes]
Baroque & Roll: black & white footage and interview from Italian television. [22 minutes]
Photo gallery from Gary Green's private collection. [36 photos]
PLUS: Original music (during the DVD menus) by Kerry Minnear!

(We also still sell the Gentle Giant CDs "Under Construction" and "In a Glass House.")

Order online directly from the band!

I just got mine last night, packed and shipped by the Minnear family themselves!

It's really wonderful. The German TV set from 1974 was produced by Christopher Nupen, who made some wonderful films about Jacqueline du Pre. Unfortunately, the camera work tends to be limited to extreme close-ups so you don't get the group dynamic, nor do you hardly ever see Gary Green's hands when he's soloing. The studio audience seems stunned into submission, also, but that in no way detracts from the performance. Never having seen them live, it's such a thrill to watch them trade and switch instruments. For example, at the end of Proclamation, Ray Shulman gives his bass to brother Derek and picks up a violin. Kerry Minnear leaves his keyboard set-up to grab a cello. Midway through the tune, Ray picks up a trumpet while Kerry scoots back to the keyboards only to emerge shortly thereafter to take a wild vibes solo. The 5-man drum bash in incredible to witness, as well.

The 1975 footage, from the old In Concert program, is much improved in terms of picture quality, camera work, and audience response. There is 100% overlap in terms of songs performed, so you don't get any new tunes but the new camera angles really make you feel like you're seeing the material fresh.

The DVD comes with a bonus CD, which is the audio for the 1974 set. and the new music that Kerry composed and recorded for the intro and menu is excellent. Oh, if only......

[Deke]

I don't know if you guys know about this or not. It's supposed to be new in, but it may all be stuff you've already discussed. Hey, it's free to post, so I thought I'd give it a try...

(They used to be Simon Dupree and the Big Sound? I didn't know that, Erne.)

[groover]

The Simon Dupree album is worth hearing, if you're a hardcore GG fan, and what other kind is there? I only saw them live once, in 1980 at the Tower Theatre in Upper Darby, PA, and though their studio work had declined, they were still phenomenal in concert. I also like the Civilian album, though they were obviously trying to modernize their sound for the 80's. I don't blame Derek Shulman for trying to make a living, as he'd already discovered the hard way that the mass audience can't distinguish between shit and shinola.

BTW, thanks GG for hipping us to the DVD, I just ordered a copy!

[Gentle Giant]

First of all, I have to say it feels so nice to have a thread here about Gentle Giant that was NOT started by me!

Second, I do think it's cool that Kerry is running Alucard (spell it backwards) to make some rare stuff commercially available. This isn't a band that's getting rich off its royalties, after all, so they deserve the support.

Third, I have a problem about the description of In a Glass House from that link, "A concept album, supposedly about how people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." That line is from a review on the GG website and I don't think it's accurate (I take it up in my own review on the album on said website). I think that "glass house" is a slang term for prison; I know that there's a prison movie that was made in 1972 called The Glass House. Anyway, all the songs on In a Glass House are clearly told from either a current prisoner or ex-con's point of view. "An Inmate's Lullaby" is particularly astonishing. The inmate is clearly in a facility for the criminally insane, and the instruments are all from the percussion family. It's very cool. The opener, "The Runaway," and the title track burn with power and complexity.

Finally, Simon Dupree was a band that featured all the Shulman brothers (including oldest brother Phil, who left GG after the fourth album). They broke up the band because they wanted to do something that wasn't Top 40-driven (boy, did they ever succeed!) and that featured a much higher degree of musical skill. The first new mate they found was Kerry Minnear and that was certainly the key acquisition. But back to Simon Dupree. This is a white soul/R&B/pop group that could've been bigger had Derek Shulman had a more commercial voice. I particularly like their cover of Manfred Mann's "Daytime Nighttime."

As for the DVD, I definitely recommend it as long as the fact that you basically get two sets of mostly the same songs doesn't turn you off too much. The bonus audio CD is excellent icing on the cake.

So sincerely,

GG

[lazarus]

There´s a new book on GG titled "Gentle Giant : Acquiring The Taste"
by Paul Stump. Has anybody read it?

http://www.safpublishing.com/store/system/store.htm