Top 10 EAI Artists

[sonic1]

Please don't post a list if you don't know what we mean. I would like to see the top artists in terms of influence (on either audience or other musicians).

My appologies if this has been done.

Jared

[Sergio Zamora]

Imo, the fer-sure-fab-four are:

Keith Rowe
Otomo Yoshihide
Toshi Nakamura
Guenter Muller

After that, I actually have to think about it. I'd like to include an Austrian in the short list, but I'm not sure which one. And while he's a non-i, I'd like to find a place for John Wall.

[frankiepop]

i really like those 4 but i would really like to toss in voice crack..

moslang and guhl

[Jon Abbey]

Sachiko M. besides everything else, I think her ideas have been really influential on a lot of Otomo's post-Ground Zero work.

[sonic1]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

Imo, the fer-sure-fab-four are:

I'd like to include an Austrian in the short list, but I'm not sure which one.

Is there a large Austrian EAI movement (maybe if you tell me the artists you are thinking of I will say, "oh yeah of course". Who are these Austrians?

I don't know that he fits anywhere but I have to keep bringing up Keiji Haino, especially since he was so influential on many of the above mentioned.

Jared

[Jon Abbey]

Keiji Haino was maybe slightly influential on Otomo, but I don't really think so. he wasn't influential at all on any of those other guys.

if you go back a generation, though, Masayuki Takayanagi belongs on at least one of these lists, though, not sure which one.

[sonic1]

all I know is that he talks about Haino in his writings, usually in terms of what people were listening to. Whether this means himself or not I don't know but it would seem if he mentions him, there would be some influence.

[michaelr]

In terms of influence I'd include Radu Malfatti. Though there are many who might debate the importance of what he is doing now, his work in this area as part of groups like Polwechsel and the early work with Werner Dafeldecker and Burkhard Stangl laid a lot of ground for what has followed.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by sonic1

all I know is that he talks about Haino in his writings, usually in terms of what people were listening to. Whether this means himself or not I don't know but it would seem if he mentions him, there would be some influence.

yes, Otomo is aware of a lot of different musicians, which doesn't mean that they were influential on him. coincidentally, I actually had a discussion about Haino with Otomo and Rowe in Berlin in May, I know what I'm talking about here. I'm not minimizing Haino's work, I used to be a huge fan of his and still have probably 30 or 40 of his CDs. but I don't think he's been influential almost at all on this scene.

are you familiar with Masayuki Takayanagi? he was hugely influential on both Haino and Otomo.

I'd agree with Malfatti, who's also been influential on Sugimoto and through him, a lot of the Tokyo scene.

[Alastair]

Surely we're not talking hierarchies here, are we?

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by sonic1

Is there a large Austrian EAI movement (maybe if you tell me the artists you are thinking of I will say, "oh yeah of course". Who are these Austrians?

It's quite a prolific scene over there. Groups like Efzeg and Polwechsel (not counting Butcher) and the different collaborations by their members. They're centered around labels like Durian, Charizma, etc. Burkhard Stangl, Werner Dafeldecker, Franz Hauzinger, Dieb13, Christof Kurzmann, Boris Hauf, Martin Siewert, Martin Brandlmeyer, and so on. Then there is another branch of electronic music coming from the Mego label - folks like Fennesz and Pita.

[sonic1]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

yes, Otomo is aware of a lot of different musicians, which doesn't mean that they were influential on him. coincidentally, I actually had a discussion about Haino with Otomo and Rowe in Berlin in May, I know what I'm talking about here. I'm not minimizing Haino's work, I used to be a huge fan of his and still have probably 30 or 40 of his CDs. but I don't think he's been influential almost at all on this scene.

are you familiar with Masayuki Takayanagi? he was hugely influential on both Haino and Otomo.

I'd agree with Malfatti, who's also been influential on Sugimoto and through him, a lot of the Tokyo scene.

Jon, please don't take me as questioning your authority. I am just asking you about that which I have read. I totally respect your knowledge on this subject so no need to justify to me that you know what you are talking about. We all know you are close to this music. Which is why I am asking the questions. Until I get proof otherwise, I will go with what you said about Haino.

I am only familiar with Masayuki Takayanagi by reading about him. I have no idea what he sounds like and have been curious.

The more we discuss this music the more I am listening to to EAI specifically (the albums that I have). I keep coming up with questions on the influence and...for better lack of words, taxonomy of EAI. Like how do labels like Sachimay fit in here. And BoxMedia. It also seems to me that some of the Japanese noise stuff makes some marriages with at least the japanese improv. artists (have some not worked in both types of music?).

Right now I am listening to Arambachi/Fennesz/pimmon/Rehberg/Rowe: Afternoon Tea. So far this is one of my favorite EAI albums, along with Yoshihide's Ensemble Cathode.

Regarding the Austrians, I am looking forward to hearing more. I don't know any of those artists, except for Fennesz.

Jared

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by Alastair

Surely we're not talking hierarchies here, are we?

I actually am thinking about suggesting to Keith and Burkhard Beins that they title the devastating live set from Berlin, which I'm releasing as ErstLive 001, "Hierarchical".

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by sonic1

Regarding the Austrians, I am looking forward to hearing more. I don't know any of those artists, except for Fennesz.

Since you're familiar with Fennesz, you might want to check out 'Wrapped Islands' on Erstwhile. A collaboration between Fennesz and Polwechsel. This recording sounds very different from other Polwechsel recordings, however. Speaking of erstwhile, 'eh' (Stangl, Dieb13) is one of my favorite ersts.

I'm really digging the new Efzeg called 'wurm' (Grob) very much. Charhizma 20 aka Green (Dafeldecker, Kurzmann, Drumm, dieb13, eRIKm, Noetinger) is also a must, imo.

I could recommend more, but that's just off the top of my head.

[sonic1]

I'll have to follow your suggestions later. I have already made a large order with jon. I am already planning my next purchase even though I have not even gotten my first!

Now here is another question, to elaborate what I was talking about before, and maybe I should be doing this on the EAI site, but this seems more elementary...

With labels like Sachimay, and a lot of the artists on BoxMedia, they are playing what to my ears is EAI, definately not american free jazz or EFI. But the artists I am thinking of are dependably acoustic. For example Dan DeChellis is dependably acoustic, at least all the stuff I have of his. In fact of the several albums I have from his label the only digital piece is by Katarina Miljkovec (sp?) which has one computer generated piece on one track.

The term Electro-acoustic Improvisation makes sense for artists or "scenes" that regularly or almost always use electronics, but what about those that don't regularly use such. It would seem the epithet would be somewhat restrictive, and favoring of certain aspects of the music. Should these artists be put in their own category? Am I being too anal about the terminology? I used to be a botanist and have a habit of taxonomizing my world. I understand names are just names, but if we are going to use them I would think they should reflect what they mean.

Yeah, maybe I am just an obsessive little geek...

Jared

[Jon Abbey]

I'm not too familiar with the Sachimay stuff. BOXmedia I'm extremely familiar with (in fact we just got in a bunch of new stuff from them at ErstDist), and a lot of that stuff definitely falls under "eai", they were one of the groundbreaking labels, actually. it's a shame they've never had very good distribution.

although "eai" began as shorthand for electro-acoustic improvisation, I think at this point it works better as a three letter word which doesn't stand for anything except itself. a lot of the music under the "eai" umbrella is all-electronic, a little is all-acoustic, and some is even composed. I think the important thing isn't to say "this belongs here" and "that belongs there", but just to recognize that there are different areas with different interests, concerns and working methods, which Dan did very nicely with his Venn diagram.

[sonic1]

nicely put jon. I can accept that in my brain...

Jared

1. Keith Rowe

2. Axel Doerner

3. Burkhard Beins

4. Andrea Neumann

5. Christof Kurzmann

6. Martin Brandlmayer

7. Otomo Yoshihide

8. Thomas Lehn

9. Greg Kelley

10. Mattin

[walto]

I think I've heard all the DeChellis recordings, FWIW, I think he's more of a free jazz/mod classical improv type. For some reason, the (traditional keys-playing) pianists who get accepted as eai types tend to be more in the Tilbury tradition. At first, I equated this with the "non-ego" approach of Morton Feldman, which was certainly influential on Tilbury, but now it strikes me as more "historically accidental" (i.e., AMM driven) than anything else. In any case, I don't think eai afficionados will generally make guys like DeChellis, Kaufmann, Warburton, Blondy, as being firmly within that school. I could be wrong, of course.