mood and music

[sonic1]

Another thread got me to thinking about how our ears/taste change with time. And I also got to thinking about how moody I myself am with music. There will be albums that at one moment I am totally bored with. The next moment I will be floored. And I am not suggesting that this has to do with the more "challenging" genres.

For example: I still use casette tapes in my car and am limited to what I can hear in my car unless I use the stupid CD walkman with the CD-Cassette transfer wire. To date I have about 15 tapes in the cars-among them Eric Dolphy: Berlin Concerts, Melt Banana: cactuses come in flocks, the Who: BBC sessions, Nuggets 2 comp. etc.

Maybe it is because I have heard these tapes so much I could puke. But if I am in a different environment (playing the actual vinyl/cd in my house) the music feels totally different.

It happens a lot, not just with this perhaps poor example. I think it is an interesting phenomenon: how one moment you cannot hear the magic in a piece of music, and another moment with the same music you are floored. Does anyone else experience this?

Jared

[crawjo]

Yes. You have to be in the right frame of mind to listen to music. It is not simply a passive experience, it also requires an active effort on the part of the listener. I find that if I get in the habit of listening to one type of music, I develop very finely-tuned ears for that type of music, and I can't "hear" other kinds of music as well. So if I'm on a streak where I'm listening to a lot of Miles Davis's Second Quintet, I'm going to have a harder time digging Evan Parker, and vice versa.

Also, my mood changes from day to day, hour to hour, so where at one moment I might find myself in awe of something, on the next listen I might be bored with it.

Hahaha.......

Demented minds really DO think alike.

Jared, check out what I just posted on the Love Supreme thread. and I hadn't even seen this one yet!

[Joe Carter]

What I tell my university students in my Jazz History course is that as your life experiences change, you will hear great music differently. If you view a painting by Gaughin or Van Gogh when you're 20 and then go back to that same museum and view that painting again when you're 25 or 30, you're going to see things that you didn't see the previous time because you've grown as a person. It's the same thing with music that is on a high level. It's not going to happen with Britney Spears' latest "hit" but it will happen with any song off of Kind Of Blue, to give an example.

BTW, I give this little "speech" to my students when we get to the Miles and Gil Evans collaborations.

Joe C.

[Sergio Zamora]

There's also a lot of music that I finally 'get' when I listen to it in a certain environment. Unfortunately, much of my listening is at work where I can't really focus on the music as much as I should. I used to relegate car listening to an even lower level than that - background noise for the road. However, for some reason I just couldn't really get into 'Good Morning Good Night' (Yoshihide/Nakamura/Matsubara) until I heard it in the car one day. It was the sensual combination of the music, the visuals (the quiet suburban streets with their starbucks, trees and their birds and squirrels almost seemed surrealistic with that soundtrack), and something about the overall peacefulness helped me focus on the tension in the music - sort of an implied menace to the surroundings.

And the perfect music walking through the a busy city has to be electric Miles. Again, there's this sort of tension that makes certain things around you take a different meaning and at the same time makes you experience the music differently than, say, listening in your living room.

[sonic1]

ah yes. How unfortunate that we have to squeeze listening to music into our daily grind. Especially when that taste is not necessarily shared with many others if any in one's environment.

Jared

[graypencil]

Originally Posted by Joe Carter

What I tell my university students in my Jazz History course is that as your life experiences change, you will hear great music differently. If you view a painting by Gaughin or Van Gogh when you're 20 and then go back to that same museum and view that painting again when you're 25 or 30, you're going to see things that you didn't see the previous time because you've grown as a person. It's the same thing with music that is on a high level. It's not going to happen with Britney Spears' latest "hit" but it will happen with any song off of Kind Of Blue, to give an example.

BTW, I give this little "speech" to my students when we get to the Miles and Gil Evans collaborations.

Joe C.

I just experienced something similar a few months ago when I got the Mulligan CJB Mosiac Box ..I hadn't heard any of that music since the 60s ..and going thru it again ( after having written and arranged music for some 40 years ), I was amazed at all the things I heard with the perspective of time! It was a real revelation to hear what ALL those guys ..Mulligan, Holman, Cohn, Mandel, McFarland, Russell Brookmeyer, et al. were doing at the time!

I must have spent almost a full week just dissecting "All About Rosie" by itself!

[crawjo]

I spent the 4th of July weekend with my in-laws, who are very good people, very kind. My birthday had been a few days before that, and so in looking for a gift for me they had perused my wish list at Amazon, which contains a lot of Sun Ra recordings.

So, when we got to their place on the 3rd, the first thing my mother-in-law wanted to know is "Who is Sun Ra and what is the deal with him?" Well, I tried. I gave her a thumbnail sketch of Ra's background and philosophy (you can imagine how that went over, my mother-in-law doesn't like jazz, let alone free jazz, let alone free jazz players who call the seventh planet from the Sun their home). But after I explained this to her, she insisted that I play some Sun Ra for her.

I knew this wasn't going to go well. We were traveling, and I only had one Ra album with me: Pathways to Unknown Worlds/Friendly Love, which I actually like. I had it with me because it was one of my more recent purchases and I wanted to get into it again. But this is DEFINITELY not the album I would give to someone to introduce them to Ra's music. Maybe Jazz in Silhouette, maybe Cosmic Forms, hell maybe the soundtrack to Space is the Place, but not this. But she insisted, so I put it on. Literally, the first track had not been playing for more than 15 or 20 seconds before she says, "So, tell me. I really don't like or 'get' jazz very much, but why would anyone ever want to listen to this? What is this supposed to be?" This is my mother-in-law, mind you, so I'm not really sure how to answer this question. I felt like saying: "If you have to ask, you'll never know." But I just said something like, "Hmmm...that's a tough question. I don't know how to answer that." More screeching and wailing from the Arkestra ensues, and she listens for another minute and says, "They don't even KNOW how to play their instruments!" I said, "Sure, they do, just not in the way you are used to hearing it." She replies, "I'm not so sure about that..." Now, I'm actually getting a little angry, and some other people who were hanging around the house that day started joining in the Ra bashing. It was embarrassing, and it put me in a foul mood for the rest of the day. I took the music off after about five minutes (they all heard only five minutes of this, total), and I haven't been able to go back to it since. I'm still ticked off about it. I mean, I've been spending a lot of time in the past year or so listening to Ra, and these people are passing judgment on him after 20 seconds. Man, how weak is that? It really gives you some perspective though. I mean, she was coming from a standpoint of not liking jazz period, and I'm supposed to explain Sun Ra to her?

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

And the perfect music walking through the a busy city has to be electric Miles.

I'd go with Fela, but that's the same general ballpark, I'd say.

[sonic1]

Crawdaddyo-

I used to have similar experiences years ago when I worked at a cafe here in Tucson. I remember putting on The Velvet Underground with Nico thinking this is just classic stuff that everyone would like....

...boy have I lost touch with the common taste! People reacted to the music like I couldn't believe. I was shocked. One person had his hands on his ears and said to me, "what is this shit??"

It didn't effect my wanting to listening to the VU. But it sure made me even more full of hatred than I already am for the average person. I thought, how often do I have to put up with Kenny G in public places, or other musics I don't like. But I would never go up to anyone to complain. Maybe I should??

I realize now that I need to be careful about what I play for a large unpredictable audience. Many of us here have tastes that are far out from what the average person even considers tolerable let alone pleasant. And I sure hate being in the place to defend my tastes.

Jared

[SEJ]

Originally Posted by crawjo

...Literally, the first track had not been playing for more than 15 or 20 seconds before she says, "So, tell me. I really don't like or 'get' jazz very much, but why would anyone ever want to listen to this? What is this supposed to be?"...More screeching and wailing from the Arkestra ensues, and she listens for another minute and says, "They don't even KNOW how to play their instruments!"...I took the music off after about five minutes (they all heard only five minutes of this, total), and I haven't been able to go back to it since. I'm still ticked off about it. I mean, I've been spending a lot of time in the past year or so listening to Ra, and these people are passing judgment on him after 20 seconds. Man, how weak is that? It really gives you some perspective though. I mean, she was coming from a standpoint of not liking jazz period, and I'm supposed to explain Sun Ra to her?

Well, I love jazz, and we'd agree on a lot of things, even some Sun Ra, but I don't think you could "explain" five minutes of screeching and wailing to me, either.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by SEJ

Well, I love jazz, and we'd agree on a lot of things, even some Sun Ra, but I don't think you could "explain" five minutes of screeching and wailing to me, either.

Right, but I'd guess that you would probably give it more than five minutes before asking for an "explanation" if indeed you ever asked for one.

[AntManBee]

Sometimes a friend has played something to me in his or her home and I've really liked it. Later when I've picked up my own copy of the album, it just wouldn't work in my place. As if the music was part of the original environment, or as if my friend's appreciation of the music enriched my experience of it.

[Tom Storer]

Originally Posted by sonic1

I thought, how often do I have to put up with Kenny G in public places, or other musics I don't like. But I would never go up to anyone to complain. Maybe I should??

I realize now that I need to be careful about what I play for a large unpredictable audience. Many of us here have tastes that are far out from what the average person even considers tolerable let alone pleasant. And I sure hate being in the place to defend my tastes.

Like you, I don't complain about music in public places or music friends put on in their houses. But it does work both ways in that there's a fair amount of stuff I can barely tolerate, particularly if it's loud. With me it's hard rock or techno, but I can well understand that someone not used to jazz would have a hard time with Sun Ra, and I wouldn't put it on unless I know the person was open-minded or interested.

In a public place like a café I'd stick with innocuous music played quietly unless management decreed a certain style in order to attract a certain audience. There's a restaurant near me that we go to because it's a nice setting and the food is good, but the staff sometimes puts on thudding popular music at a volume that's a little too high for me. I hate it when you can't talk at a normal conversational level in a restaurant, and if the music is unpleasant to me, forget it. I put up with it at this particular restaurant but sometimes it really makes me want to eat fast and leave.

Actually, I think it's kind of funny that you assumed the Velvet Underground would be something everyone would like!

[likewise]

Ahh...all too familiar, just wanting to share some great music with somebody,
resulting in dumb and aggressive incomprehension. I've even had my nextdoor
neighbor coming over only to complain about what he heard as "continuous
noise" (well, OK, we were having a Jaap Blonk night...the kids loved it).

Nowadays, I comfort myself with a quote from the German composer
Paul Hindemith:
"Music is meaningless noise, if it doesn't meet with a receptive mind".

[Gary Sisco]

I've had these experiences many times, but the only thing that continues to amaze me anymore is how people can't seem to understand that nearly all of the music they dig drives me as far up a wall as mine does them. It's as if it's understood that "everyone" likes "normal" music, and that somehow establishes a common baseline for everyone. But it doesn't. One of the reasons (among many) that I only very rarely frequent "public" space (which is, ironically, mainly private space) is because the ubiquitous, supposedly friendly music they choose, I find unlistenable to the point of real irritation and obnoxiousness.

So, I don't get too excited if people don't dig mine, anymore. I just find it strange that they find it strange that theirs annoys me just as much, and maybe more.

[Dennis Gonzalez]

I don't listen to music much, so when I do hear it, it's usually fresh. Your neurons can be easily fried by too much listening, playing your music at high volumes all the time, too little volume so that you don't get detail and lose interest, depression, excessive and constant excitement, over familiarity, lack of readiness, lack of challenge, too much challenge, using music as filler or as background, fear of silence, too much testosterone, driving in bad traffic...so many things that this magic we call music can be derailed by.

Let it go for a day or an hour. Be ready when you listen, and listen in optimum conditions. It'll be worth it.

Mr. Know-it-all

PS When my father died, I listened to stupid syrupy top 40, and it made sense and helped me get through the grief. All those silly love songs and country songs of heartache meant something deep at the time! Strange...

Reminds me of something my buddy once told me.

He was up for our sons birthday one year, and had arrived the evening before while we were still prepping the house for the flood of guests coming the next day.

I had First Meditations on while I finished with some cleaning around the house. My buddy, who is an electrician, was installing some lights under our cabinets in the kitchen. The mood was great, the music was great, and my buddy didn't seem to mind it at all.

When the cd finished, I walked into the living room to change the disc and from the kitchen I heard my buddy say "hey man, can we listen to some real music now"?

Classic...........

[Paul B]

I once cleared a room by playing "First Meditations."

Basically, there's no way around the situation Crawjo found himself in but a sort of diplomacy. I wouldn't have put the Sun Ra on, but rather would have told his mother-in-law that it's strange music she'd not likely be into, though her interest was appreciated.

I studied with a member of Rova for years, but never once played their music for my Mom. She wouldn't have gotten it, and I think it's better to not try to convert people, or even get them interested in the farther reaches of a music of which even the basic canon--"classic jazz"--goes over the heads of most people.

As for the topic at hand, one's appreciation of music will change over all sorts of temporal periods, both long and short. The interesting trend is what graypencil talks about: going back to music one hasn't heard in many years, and experiencing new revelations.

Bye-ya.

[hearsay]

I agree, I usually try to be diplomatic, and if somebody comes to me with an honest interest I'll try to break them in gently. It can really piss me off too though if people act ignorant and close-minded, I have an almost knee-jerk snoberry like, "well you're an idiot and I wouldn't expect you to understand." I genrally accept that what I like is not the norm and I don't begrudge any one for liking Britney Spears or whatever. As a creative musician it's hard though, I wish people would be more open, I often will listen to music I may not immediately like if I find it intriguing in some way, or at least feel I should be aware of it to definitively say I don't like it. I guess that mentality does mostly come down to a perspective of being more open and curious and creative in life.

Sorry, that's a very broad statement.

[Khaled Ahmad]

Just for the record, I NEVER EVER play my music for other people. Not even Charlie Parker because even that is too annoying for most people. When I was into the Velvet Underground a friend of mine (who was also into them) played their CD while hanging out with some of his friends, and they couldn't stand it! When he told me that story, I said, "What do you expect?!?!?!"

If you guys want to hear something that will really put things in perspective, I once knew a girl who said that she liked the Beatles, but hated all those "long" solos they have, like the one in "Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite."

I honestly couldn't believe that considering their solos are 15 seconds long TOPS and I always wished that a lot of them like the one in "Mr. Kite" were MINUTES longer.

[Jesse]

Originally Posted by Dennis Gonzalez

I don't listen to music much, so when I do hear it, it's usually fresh. Your neurons can be easily fried by too much listening, playing your music at high volumes all the time, too little volume so that you don't get detail and lose interest, depression, excessive and constant excitement, over familiarity, lack of readiness, lack of challenge, too much challenge, using music as filler or as background, fear of silence, too much testosterone, driving in bad traffic...so many things that this magic we call music can be derailed by.

Let it go for a day or an hour. Be ready when you listen, and listen in optimum conditions. It'll be worth it.

Mr. Know-it-all

PS When my father died, I listened to stupid syrupy top 40, and it made sense and helped me get through the grief. All those silly love songs and country songs of heartache meant something deep at the time! Strange...

Dennis:
These observations are right on;the listener brings so much to the interaction, and often these states of mind and heart are below the awareness level. I am increasingly intolerant of supplying music as aural wallpaper in my own spaces (belied by my example below!). The nearly 8 year time-out I referenced in my post re: Catechism really rehabed my listening acumen. Oddly, out of that long relative silence, I developed a fondness for some loud shit of a non-improv nature.(e.g.,Fugazi,Swingin' Utters,et al).

[Jesse]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Reminds me of something my buddy once told me.

He was up for our sons birthday one year, and had arrived the evening before while we were still prepping the house for the flood of guests coming the next day.

I had First Meditations on while I finished with some cleaning around the house. My buddy, who is an electrician, was installing some lights under our cabinets in the kitchen. The mood was great, the music was great, and my buddy didn't seem to mind it at all.

When the cd finished, I walked into the living room to change the disc and from the kitchen I heard my buddy say "hey man, can we listen to some real music now"?

Classic...........

Scott:
The mental picture of you putzing around the home dusting and tidying up to First Meditations is great. I cannot clean w/o something fueling the task...whenever I am momentarily blanching at some of your political posts, the cleaning to Trane image will dissolve all dissonance.
Cleaning-as-we-speak-to-Moholo's "Spirits Rejoice",
Jesse

[Steve Reynolds]

after listening to music for maybe 30-40 hours/week - for about 9-10 years - and almost all of this being intensive, concentrated listening - up until the last few months, I had hardly listened to anything for almost a year.

and until early 2003, I had not lost any interest in music - my health is what made me put it aside, right or wrong, becasue of my "mood", music wasn't working in a positive way for me for whatever reason - probably mostly brought on because of my extreme shoulder pain and job induced stress

some of this had to do with my health, but I was also cleansing my ears, whether it was my intention or not

when I listen to music now, it rings fresh although I am still not 100% - but I am close



peace and blessings

[blawless]

PS When my father died, I listened to stupid syrupy top 40, and it made sense and helped me get through the grief. All those silly love songs and country songs of heartache meant something deep at the time! Strange...

This is similar to my experience in high school, with my first girlfriend, when every song on the radio about love or heartbreak spoke so purely and directly to us. I remember realizing full well at the time about what clichéd sap that music was, but how it was also so beautiful, so true. Gives me a queasy sensation to think about now.

This girlfriend also had no tolerance for my personal soundtrack for that year, X's Wild Gift. I lent the cassette to her and she returned it with clearly only a few minutes of tape having been listened to. She said it was too loud and fast for her. This basic difference of opinion was a harbinger of our coming breakup, which happened when we went away to colleges in different states and found that, with each phone call, we had less and less in common with each other. There were tears, yes, and many, many days when we thought we couldn't go on: we had loved each other so much. But we were young, and in time we did move on; heartbreak doesn't last forever, right? As usual, I think it was Mr. Mister that summed it up best. (Krista, baby, this one is for you.)

So take these Broken Wings
And learn to fly again
Learn to live so free
When we hear the voices sing
The book of love will open up and let us in.

Jesse,

My son is a great help when it comes to cleaning the house. He loves helping daddy clean, and is much more enthusiastic about it than daddy. And the first words out of his mouth before we start is "put some music on".

Steve,

I wonder if you and I were seperated at birth. Although my health is fine, I too haven't listened to much music at all over the last year. And I too had damn near overdosed on it in the previous years.

Bizarre.

But yes, it is a cleansing of sorts. Now I feel as though I have an even greater appreciation for whatever it is I listen to.

Hard to explain.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

when I listen to music now, it rings fresh although I am still not 100% - but I am close

Time to get that John Tesh 'Live at Red Rock' out of storage, my friend.

[Gary Sisco]

Dennis -- Interesting comments, especially coming from a musician. When I was a player, I didn't listen much, either. If I wanted to hear music, I played it, by myself or with my buddies. The only time I did much listening was when driving, and for a decade or more, I had only a shoebox full of the same cassettes (full of great music, mind) as my entire collection.

But from the later 80s until last year, I had a near continuous soundtrack going on. If I was awake, and often if I was asleep, there was music on the box. Over the last year or so, I've kicked that habit, and it has indeed been good for me and good for my ears. Most of the time, now, I put music on only if I'm socializing or if I can really take the time to pay attention to it. When working at the barn or with the horses, I put it on far less than half of the time, and then, it's more often than not some Bach keyboard music on at a low volume. I have about 30 tapes at the barn, normally, but I turn to the Bach almost all of the time. This afternoon, I had some eai on, at a very soft volume, nearly inaudible, while I groomed the horses. That was cool, too, mixing with the other sounds.

I think I kicked the soundtrack habit because wallpaper music has become so ubiquitous in this society that I don't want to add to it. Wallpaper music annoys me. I think its main purpose is not musical enjoyment or interest but rather an attempt to distract people from their own thoughts and lives. Those are things from which I need no distraction.