Tortoise

[TheloniousFunk]

I'm curious about what everyone's opinion of Tortoise is. I really enjoy them as a group, and I'm a big fan of John McEntire as a producer (as well as a musician).

The last time I was here was April, so I dunno if they've already been discussed, but I recently saw them (and love them) and was just wondering.

[al j]

The music's cool (I have their latest release), real cool, in fact. But I can't help thinking that a frontman would serve this band really well. Someone Sam Prekop-ish maybe.

[Stuckinagroove]

Love 'em. TNT, and millions now living are fantastic albums. Their newest one I don't like as much but its solid too. They have a very unique sound, and an obvious jazz influence- especially after tnt.

[Pete C]

I never heard of 'em, but welcome back T-Funk.

[Nick]

I love 'em too. I thought the new album was a little disappointing but enjoyable none the less. I also saw them live for the first time a couple months ago and they were astounding. Too bad there were so many drunken raving idiots there yelling stupid shit to the band during their performance. ("Jeff Parker you fuckin' rule!!!!").

[Enforcer]

Tortoise is great. Just a hare better than the other bands I've been listening to...

Getting worse by the day,
Larry

[Ron Thorne]

Time for a vacation, Lar?

[john williams]

I have 3-
Tortoise (ST)
Millions Now Living Will Never Die
Standards

It took me some time to get into this band because I found them a little clinical and rather devoid of any emotional content. However, when the mood is right I really enjoy them and I certainly think their sound grows on you, which is always a good thing.

Listening to Standards right now; yeah it's cool.

[mjb]

Another "yeah" from me. It's All Around You took a while to sink in for me - I think it gets better & reveals itself over time

[TheloniousFunk]

I definitely agree about their latest release taking a while to sink in. I remember them playing a couple of the tracks live, and it absolutely amazed me, so the album brings back some pleasant memories.

In response to what Joe Christmas said-- that would be an interesting show. Have you by any chance heard any of Archer Prewitt's solo stuff? I prefer it to Sam's (not that I don't enjoy Prekop a lot).

[Dan G]

saw them in a bar about 6 or 7 years ago, one of the most boring shows I've seen in 25 years of concerts. Too much posturing, switching instruments, fucking around with multiple people playing one instrument (2 on a piano, or vibes, or drum kit), all I could think about was that 3 good musicians could have done what the 5(?) of them did. Too much 'entertaining', not enough playing music.

Had borrowed a couple of records from the friend who dragged me to the show, and thought they were OK, but now have no interest in ever hearing them again.

[Salvador Dali Lama]

now that i've finally come to grips with the fact that tortoise is NOT slint i can appreciate what they do a lot more... i like the first album a lot, and i think the new one is pretty good too.... but i'd level the same criticism about them as my pal JBW. just too cold for me at times....

[Jon Abbey]

I don't like putting the first negative opinion in these threads, but since Dan posted, let me chime in:

Originally Posted by Dan G

I saw them in a bar about 6 or 7 years ago, one of the most boring shows I've seen in 25 years of concerts. Too much posturing, switching instruments, fucking around with multiple people playing one instrument (2 on a piano, or vibes, or drum kit), all I could think about was that 3 good musicians could have done what the 5(?) of them did. Too much 'entertaining', not enough playing music.

yeah, the show that they did at Victo maybe five years ago was one of the lamest I've ever seen, noodly boring fusion with Jim O'Rourke standing next to me the whole time telling me how McEntire was the best drummer in the world. oy. no. the records aren't much better, although DJed is pretty cool the first time you hear it.

[bobetterblues]

A friend of mine calls them "Bored-oise"

I've listened to Standards a few times, but that's about it.

I was supposed to play a show with them this year, but they cancelled due to low ticket sales.

[Jon Abbey]

bo, what's the name of your band?

[bobetterblues]

I'm kind of hesitant to say for various reasons.

[Rob C]

I haven't really checked out Tortoise yet--inexcusable, given that I live in Chicago--but I have been getting into the whole "post-rock" thing of late: Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Do Make Say Think, Boxhead Ensemble, Mogwai.... There's something about the genre as a whole that seems to pick up threads of the jazz/avant-garde I have been listening to for the past decade or so, and the rock I grew up on, that really appeals to me.

Probably too square for a lot of the people around here, though....

[clinthopson]

Our pet desert tortoise is named Larry. He's 35 years old and will outlive us all.

He comes when he's called. No kiddin'.

[Enforcer]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

Our pet desert tortoise is named Larry. He's 35 years old and will outlive us all.

He comes when he's called. No kiddin'.

Clint, I'm actually 36, thanks for forgetting. Oh yeah, an occasional cleaning of my cage would be nice, too.

Complaining but still waiting to be called so he can get some attention and approval,
Larry

[MRS]

Originally Posted by Dan G

saw them in a bar about 6 or 7 years ago, one of the most boring shows I've seen in 25 years of concerts. Too much posturing, switching instruments, fucking around with multiple people playing one instrument (2 on a piano, or vibes, or drum kit), all I could think about was that 3 good musicians could have done what the 5(?) of them did. Too much 'entertaining', not enough playing music.

You should've driven to see Butcher, homes.

[sonic1]

I think bands on Thrill Jockey including Tortiose and its incarnations and the chicago underground incarnations are definately going to leave different impressions on people depending on what they listen to. I think they are a crucial link for a lot of people who grew up listening to no-wave, rock, what-have-you-to jazz and related musics. I didn't like them when I first heard them, thought they were pretentious. But I have come to appreciate kitschy musics more. Kitschy is where I place these guys, though they are somewhat serious about what they do-it is jazz flavored pop music, not really jazz. I think they will get better as the years wear on, maybe becoming a little more harmonically interesting-which is my greatest criticism-they can hang on a chord or motif for way too long.

Jared

[Enforcer]

Originally Posted by Jazzzoline

.oO( Larry is only 36 ?!??! WHOA!!!)

I look at least 40 years older than I really am. I blame it on Akiko.

[Stuckinagroove]

Originally Posted by bobetterblues

A friend of mine calls them "Bored-oise"

Wow, brilliant. I can see someone thinking that. Their music is the kind that grows on you. Actually, I dug them right away, but thats just me. Anybody that digs them should definitely check out isotope 217, and chicago underground all of which are loosely affiliated. I wrote a neglected review (shocking) of chicago underground's new one over on the reviews board.

[Stuckinagroove]

Originally Posted by Dan G

saw them in a bar about 6 or 7 years ago, one of the most boring shows I've seen in 25 years of concerts. Too much posturing, switching instruments, fucking around with multiple people playing one instrument (2 on a piano, or vibes, or drum kit), all I could think about was that 3 good musicians could have done what the 5(?) of them did. Too much 'entertaining', not enough playing music.

Had borrowed a couple of records from the friend who dragged me to the show, and thought they were OK, but now have no interest in ever hearing them again.

To be fair, I believe they have different members in the band now than 7 years ago. I don't think jeff parker was with them then, a fine guitarist.

[Stuckinagroove]

Originally Posted by sonic1

I think bands on Thrill Jockey including Tortiose and its incarnations and the chicago underground incarnations are definately going to leave different impressions on people depending on what they listen to. I think they are a crucial link for a lot of people who grew up listening to no-wave, rock, what-have-you-to jazz and related musics. I didn't like them when I first heard them, thought they were pretentious. But I have come to appreciate kitschy musics more. Kitschy is where I place these guys, though they are somewhat serious about what they do-it is jazz flavored pop music, not really jazz. I think they will get better as the years wear on, maybe becoming a little more harmonically interesting-which is my greatest criticism-they can hang on a chord or motif for way too long.

Jared

Pop as in popular? I don't see that.

[TheloniousFunk]

Yeah I dunno about the pop (as in popular) thing either. But I'm not sure that's what you meant...

[sonic1]

pop music as in pop music, not necessarily popular. A lot of "pop" music is indie. In this case when I say pop music I mean not art music-this can get hairy, this subject. But in discussing tortiose, they have a more pop, or rock based sound than necessarily a jazz sound, just look at the chord changes.

Or we could be simple and just call it fusion, which it is. But the timing of the band separates it from fusion, as do the bands references to DJ music.

Jared

[clinthopson]

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

Clint, I'm actually 36, thanks for forgetting. Oh yeah, an occasional cleaning of my cage would be nice, too.

Complaining but still waiting to be called so he can get some attention and approval,
Larry

C'mon Larry. C'mon boy. You can do it. Gooood Boy. Now sit.

[GodSpeliZed]

Originally Posted by sonic1

we could be simple and just call it fusion, which it is.

It is also my opinion. Tortoise maybe could be the 'fusion version' of the so called 'post rock'. I think they were important (or, at least, that's the way they were observed here in Europe) for a lot of reasons, and between them: they breaked a 'rock/pop tradition', an imaginery built around the figure of a 'leader' (singer/guitarist), always brilliant and always hexed (a thin red line from Elvis to Cobain) who was what perverted the punk or post punk attitude (excuse me you all if I'm writing an horrible and pretentious essay of musicology.............); they also, between others, has been responsible of the rediscovery of a lot of 'forgotten' musicians (Kraftwerk and all the 'kraut rock' thing, for example). Here in Europe (those of you who read The Wire regularly know this point of wiew) they was regarded as a possibility to expand or even pull down the blocks betwenn the various musical genres, and help musicians and fans to get a more open look over the world of music. Maybe that's the way all the 'post-rock thing', charged by critics of a so heavy duty, were in those last years so hard criticized (they weren't able to keep the promises of the music critics.....).

Anyway, I agree with the opinion that Tortoise music is too cold. I relistened to Standards some days ago, and I have found it, one more time, too dispersive. It seemed to me that they have too many ideas, but not the ability of synthetize them in a more definite shape - like many of my posts
- the analogy with my post is only about the lack of synthesis, anyway....

IMO, the 'definitive' post-rock album is "Age" by Daniel Givens. I'm waiting for his next move.......

.... sonic1, the idea of "kitsch" is skilful, I've never thinked about - I would mean, foreclosing Trans AM, obviously (?)..........

[Dr Dave]

They need Donald Fagen as a frontman.