Steve Coleman and Five Elements - Lucidarium

[Around Tazief]

This one is coming on Label Bleu ( France )
Very strange and beautiful one with great musicians !!!!
Vocals are very important on this one and there is a lot of musicians ( Ravi Coltrane - Ralph Alessi - Mat Maneri - Craig Taborn - Drew Gress .... )
Many more informations on Label Bleu Website http://www.label-bleu.com/
Around Tazief

[hearsay]

I've been looking forward to hearing this one. It's supposed to be his foray into microtonal stuff. I saw it at DMG so I think I'll have to pick it up.

[GodSpeliZed]

I've listened to it only one time, today, when I was writing the 'review' for the Arkestra concert. It's my 1st SC album, so I won't make a review. I've listened to something by him on radio, and I found him intriguing (I have 1 track by '64th path' on a compilation by Label bleu). What surprised me at 1st listening was the use of voice (there are 6 different vocalist on that album, and, for what I know, is something new for Coleman, aside the collaborations of young Cassandra Wilson (never listened to it). The female voices give an eastern flavour to the pieces, and on track 9 (if I remember well) there's a male voice rapping. Expecting for a more closely listen, I wait for your impressions on this one.

[mke]

I think there was already a brief thread on this.

[GodSpeliZed]

Oops... I never noticed it... I read the thread on 64th Pats and haven't seen the other just some thread under....

[Sergio Zamora]

As Godster followed the correct thread title format for RR, I'll stick with this one.

I take it this is pretty different from 64 Paths, which I liked a whole lot. I've been meaning to pick this up every time I see it in a brick/mortar.

[GodSpeliZed]

Ok, here I am in the 'right' thread.......
First, I have to correct what I've posted in the 'wrong' thread..... the 'eastern flavour' I was talking about is present only in one on the pieces (that I was listening to when writing.....). I consider Maneri's viola the pin of most of the compositions, together with Gress bass. I found, in some of the 'extended' solos, some Douglas' reminiscence (I'm thinking about the coda of 'Mahfouz', on Douglas' "Witness", compared to the middle passage in 'Meditations on Cardinal 137'). But maybe is Douglas to be reminiscent of Coleman. I never heard of influences from the one to the other...... any comment?

[GodSpeliZed]

Sergio, I'm not sure to have undertood what you was meaning........

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by GodSpeliZed

Sergio, I'm not sure to have undertood what you was meaning........

By general agreement, thread titles in 'Record Review' should have the format '[Artist name] - [Album Name]'. Your thread followed the format, and the older thread did not.

[GodSpeliZed]

What I haven't understood is all that bricks and mortars stuff...... for my knowledge of english, it seems that you want to ..... don't want?!?!

[Cem]

Originally Posted by GodSpeliZed

I found, in some of the 'extended' solos, some Douglas' reminiscence (I'm thinking about the coda of 'Mahfouz', on Douglas' "Witness", compared to the middle passage in 'Meditations on Cardinal 137'). But maybe is Douglas to be reminiscent of Coleman. I never heard of influences from the one to the other...... any comment?

Same agency...same as Ravi C...?? go figger? Not a huge Steve Coleman fan but curious about this one.

[Cem]

GodManDo, by brick & mortar he means real record stores, where you can touch & feel the merchandise & flirt (if you're into arty bedhead action) & get ignored & argue with the staff... as opposed to cyber record stores.

[Pete C]

I'm a big fan of much of Coleman's work, and I've noticed that outside of mke and a few others his recordings don't get too much attention or respect from the regulars here. I'm wondering if it's, in general, too inside for the outsiders and too outside for the insiders.

The new one sounds interesting. However, the vocal elements of some of his other recordings have not been what attracted me in particular.

[Sergio Zamora]

Gods,

What Cem said. Sorry for the confusion. When I say 'brick and mortar', I mean an actual store where you walk in (usually not made out of brick, but the name just stuck)

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by Pete C

I'm a big fan of much of Coleman's work, and I've noticed that outside of mke and a few others his recordings don't get too much attention or respect from the regulars here. I'm wondering if it's, in general, too inside for the outsiders and too outside for the insiders.

I have often wonder the same thing.

[gnhrtg]

Originally Posted by Pete C

I'm a big fan of much of Coleman's work, and I've noticed that outside of mke and a few others his recordings don't get too much attention or respect from the regulars here. I'm wondering if it's, in general, too inside for the outsiders and too outside for the insiders.

The new one sounds interesting. However, the vocal elements of some of his other recordings have not been what attracted me in particular.

Am I a regular? I know I'm both an insider and an outsider and I, too, really like most of what I've heard of Coleman's output. It also happens that, as a rule of thumb, the more he's actually blowing, the more I enjoy the music. I will get this one sooner or later. Not to turn this into a Steve Coleman rec's thread but since I like "On the Rising of the 64 Paths," I was thinking also of picking up the 2-disc live release, immediately preceding 64 Paths I think, also on Label Bleu - I was wondering whether that was a blowing date, more or less, with not much rapping?

[mke]

The vocal elements here are quite different than on previous releases. Iirc (it's been a while), where they appear, it's more about carefully placed layers than traditional singing.

He may be ignored because people still think he's doing what he did in the 80s. Check out "Genesis/The Opening of the Way," people!

[GodSpeliZed]

Originally Posted by Cem

GodManDo

..... who do what.....?!?!?!?!?!


Ok for bricks and mortars.

[Gary Sisco]

Haven't heard his newer stuff. I'm a fan of 5 Elements, in particular, esp the lineup that had Gilmore on guitar. The post-Gilmore version didn't make it for me on the first couple of outings, so I've lost track.

[hearsay]

Steve Coleman is, to me, one of the few musicians/conceptualists who has really created his own world of music around him. For example musicians who play with him have to take a lesson in Steve Coleman theory, that is not understood over night. This forces those who play his music to approach it differently than anything else. I think this may be hard for a lot of folks to get used to, the music sounds almost too structured or too strange.

[Ennis Snavely]

Originally Posted by Pete C

I'm a big fan of much of Coleman's work, and I've noticed that outside of mke and a few others his recordings don't get too much attention or respect from the regulars here. I'm wondering if it's, in general, too inside for the outsiders and too outside for the insiders.

The new one sounds interesting. However, the vocal elements of some of his other recordings have not been what attracted me in particular.

Pete. It looks like you've put on weight.

[GodSpeliZed]

Originally Posted by Cem

Same agency...same as Ravi C...?? go figger? Not a huge Steve Coleman fan but curious about this one.

Correction: the similarity is not between 'Mahfouz' and 'Meditations....', but between Douglas' piece and the beginning of the 'collective part' on 'Kabbalah' (who follow 'Meditations....' on the CD), and is due only to the similar eastern flavour...

(please, what means 'go figger'? on my small dictionary I found only 'fig', a particular vegetable....... anyway, Ravi 'sounds', but it's the first time I listen to Coltrane son, so I don't know what to tell about him. It's more an ensemble work than a compilaton of improvised pieces, and the single playing is worth only in that view. Every piece has his own mood -- some piece has more that one, and the pieces are strictly related the one to the other - the liner notes by Coleman himself speaks cleary about the structure). Listen very closely.

[Cem]

Sorry, GodSpeliZed, I've picked up some bad habits from my American friends. It is a bastardization of "go figure", which itself is a silly way of saying "it may not make sense, but that's how it is". Another way of putting it: "Waddya gonna do?" Btw, I haven't heard "Mahfouz", or Witness , in quite a while. It goes on now.

[GodSpeliZed]

Originally Posted by Cem

Sorry, GodSpeliZed, I've picked up some bad habits from my American friends. It is a bastardization of "go figure", which itself is a silly way of saying "it may not make sense, but that's how it is". Another way of putting it: "Waddya gonna do?" Btw, I haven't heard "Mahfouz", or Witness , in quite a while. It goes on now.

No sorry and no bad habits, Cem (same for Sergio - if I remember well - in the 'other' thread....) you have your own right to write what you want in your language, it is only that if you - like someone else - write to me something, I have to know what you're saying, if I want to 'communicate'. And if sometimes I use a little bit of irony, my goal is only to try to not bore you with my question about your slang habits (if I succeed, it's another issue).
My comparison between Douglas and Coleman is probably something very stupid, (but I think it's ordinary searching some comparison when you listen to something for the 1st time..... and, being quite a 'profane', it's even ordinary that I write sometimes (most of the times......... )enormous bullshits and so on .... so it's ok.

[Cem]

God, actually, you may not know it, but you're a great communicator. It's a pleasure to read your thoughtful posts, especially when you don't use commonly used and accepted words. Very rich in style & content, nice loose feel, greatly appreciated on a jazz board.

...also, the way you "speak", reminds me of my good friends in Milano ("ciccettinos" as I like to call them) Massimo & Liliana, whom you may know if you live in Milan and are into music.

[GodSpeliZed]

I never was into the 'musical milieu' (here in Italy if you are a middle class man it's very strange to spend a lot of your free time in music and other things like that....), and Milan is a place in which I like to vanish (if you want *true* solitude, the best way is walking in a street plenty of people, and Milan - in wich I don't live, actually, I live in a small town near - is the right place for that). Milan is only my preserve for entertainment.
Glad that you appreciate my 'neologisms'....... I imagine myself like Roberto Benigni in 'Down by law'. There is a scene in which Benigni, an Italian that walks around with a notebook in which he signs every english word he listens, encounter a drunk Tom Waits. Benigni greets him saying "It's a sad and beatful world!". Waits sings a little that phrase, than says "buzz off!". Benigni opens his notebook, writes, and says: "oh... buzz off.... it's a sad and beautiful word... buzz off.... thank you very much.... buzz off to you too.... it's a sad and beautiful world... buzz of to everybody!" -- you have to listen the way he pronounces the words............

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Cem

God, actually, you may not know it, but you're a great communicator.

Didn't Moses say that?

[GodSpeliZed]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Didn't Moses say that?

.... and only for two stone panels and a burning bramble......

[Other Steve]

Listening to this disc for the first time now and really digging it, vocals, microtones and all. "Kabbalah" is one phat groove. (Or maybe it's three or four phat grooves all at once.)

More later. Very cool. And Grègoire Maret is the shizzy-izzy-izznit.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by Other Steve

And Grègoire Maret is the shizzy-izzy-izznit.

I want royalties.