Terrorism - not the real threat to American security

[Sand]

I should be working, but as this is from an article a colleague wrote today, I am (kind of).

... terrorism is not the real threat to American security; the main threat is that creative and talented people possibly are going to stop wanting to go to the USA. This is what Richard Florida claims in his book "The rise of the creative class … and how it is transforming work, leisure, community, & everyday life".

There's more of course, but that's all I have time for. The rest is left to your creative and talented imagination.

[Dr Dave]

Nah. The only people who don't want to come to America are people who want to blow us up, and they come here anyway.

By the way, we're on Orange Alert in New York City and Northern New Jersey and D.C., I think. As Howard Dean pointed out, it is now impossible to tell when these warnings are real and when they are being used for political advantage. This morning, at least, the Kerry campaign is assuming that this is a real warning. Apparently an Al Qaeda figure who was picked up a month ago (and whose capture was conveniently announced on the last day of the Democratic Convention--or was it the day after?) let it be known that his bretheren have been casing the New York Stock Exchange and some big banks in New York and D.C.

What I want to know is how can it be, after all these years of standing in line to go through "security" at airports, that terrorists are STILL entering the country to check out possible targets.

[Sand]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

Nah. The only people who don't want to come to America are people who want to blow us up, and they come here anyway.

Size doesn't matter so much anymore, in Florida's view.

"It's a wide-open ball game, and any thoughts that the dominant economic leader must be a hyperpower are silly.

"This is a creative age, about the ability to create, mobilize and harness human potential. Small and nimble countries can attract and hold the right people," he said.

"We used to have the doors open in the U.S. but no longer hold that unassailable lead. Public policy in the U.S. is beginning to make it slightly less attractive. Look at the open doors of the Irish -- they're coming up fast. This business of having to be a big country -- I don't buy it. You don't have to be big, you have to be open and sophisticated. Grad students today want to go to civil places."

[clinthopson]

The latest "terror threat" is a typical political ploy by the Chicken Little Hawks to keep the populace scared in hope that they will could on Shrub as a "strong leader against terror."

I'm not cynical or anything, am I?

It is folly to believe that terrorism has Bush on the outside looking in.

[Dr Dave]

I don't know whether you're cynical or not, Clint. When I see stories like this one (from today's NY Times website) I can't help feeling Tom Ridge is actively trying to drive us all crazy. We're in danger, but just keep to your routine, please:

August 2, 2004
Americans Urged to Stick to Routines Despite Terror Alert
By TERENCE NEILAN

Officials in New York, New Jersey and Washington urged people today to go about their normal activities, but to be vigilant in the face of new terror warnings from the Department of Homeland Security.

"The terrorists want to scare us," Senator Charles Schumer of New York said at a news conference outside the New York Stock Exchange, referring to the Bush administration's declaration on Sunday of a high risk of terrorist attacks.

"If every time they made a threat we stopped doing what we're doing, they'd win, and so we feel it's almost a moral imperative for everybody to go about their jobs," he added.

"There may be a few butterflies in some stomachs, but you still go forward, you still move forward and do what you have to do."

He went on: "One thing we know: New Yorkers are a plucky group. We showed the world after 9/11 that we were not going to let terror deter us."

But he said that "you can't be too careful in the post-9/11 world."

Similar comments were made in a series of morning television interviews today by Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, who raised the threat level to code orange — or "high risk" — for the financial sector in New York City, northern New Jersey and Washington. It was the first time that the color-code public threat system has targeted a specific sector or region, although New York City has been on "high risk" alert since Sept. 11.

Mr. Ridge acted after the Bush administration said it had received information that Al Qaeda had conducted detailed reconnaissance missions at certain sites and had moved ahead with plans to use car bombs or other modes of attack against prominent financial institutions.

John A. Thain, the chief executive of the New York Stock Exchange, one of the targets mentioned in the warnings, said: "We are open for business. We intend to keep the exchange functioning both for the benefit of the U.S. markets and for the benefit of the world markets.

"Security has always been an issue for the New York Stock Exchange," Mr. Thain said at the news conference. "We take our security precautions very seriously. The security of our people and everyone inside the building are very important to us."

He added, "We intend to keep the place open."

The Democratic governor of New Jersey, Jim McGreevey, was asked in an interview on CNN how the 1,600 employees of Prudential Financial in Newark, another target mentioned by Mr. Ridge, could be assured that they would be safe when they turned up for work today.

Mr. McGreevey said the number of local and state police at the site had been increased, and that road barriers had been set up, very much like those at a military installation.

"We have our canine, we have our bomb units out," he said, "state police are on ferries, on trains, and also we automatically implement every time we go to level orange certain safety protocols that have been adopted by the financial services industry."

He said the state had been preparing for such a situation for two and a half years, and that now the plans were being into place "on an almost seamless basis."

"The only thing we ask the public, obviously, is show up to work, continue life as normal, but if you do see suspicious activity, understand your responsibility as a citizen and report that suspicious activity to the state police."

Other potential targets singled out on Sunday include the Citigroup buildings in Manhattan and the International Monetary Fund and World Bank in Washington.

Mr. Ridge told ABC television that Americans must accept that their nation is a target and get on with business as usual, adding, "The reality of living in America after September 11 is that we have to accept the fact that from time to time that we're going to get information about attacks."

the main threat is that creative and talented people possibly are going to stop wanting to go to the USA

Everyday I come here thinking "there's no way in hell I will ever read anything more outrageous than I already have".

Today I stand corrected.

[crawjo]

I've been skeptical of some of the recent warnings, but I give them credit for this one: they've specified which targets they are concerned about. This type of information is much more useful to the average person. If they are going to be in or near any of these places, they can be more watchful for suspicious activity, etc.

[Sand]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Everyday I come here thinking "there's no way in hell I will ever read anything more outrageous than I already have".

Today I stand corrected.

I understand that the catchy headline make you and others code everything you read in red. From time to time some Americans see beyond terrorist threats - without claiming that these threats are not real.
Well, will your childred be better off:

Our loss of access to high-level foreign talent hasn't drawn much attention from political leaders and the media, for understandable reasons: We seem to have bigger, more immediate problems, from the war on terrorism to the loss of jobs in the manufacturing, service, and creative sectors to China, India, and Mexico. But just as our obsession with the Soviet Union in the last years of the Cold War caused us to miss the emerging economic challenge of Japan, our eyes may not be on the biggest threat to our economic well-being.
More from Richard Florida's Washington Monthly article

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dave

What I want to know is how can it be, after all these years of standing in line to go through "security" at airports, that terrorists are STILL entering the country to check out possible targets.

They're still entering because the Bush administration has done little or nothing to improve security at other points of entry, i.e. the ports and borders. (Granted, it's impossible to thorougly police a border, but one suspects that terrorists are not trying to come in by swimming the Rio Grande; they're coming in by plane, trane or automobile.)

Nothing Ridge or anyone else says can truly be taken seriously, both because the organization for which he works seems more or less incompetent and becuase it will do anything for political expediency. So we lose on both fronts.

I do agree with Mr. Dolan that the premise of the thread is preposterous.

Bye-ya.

[groover]

Good article, Sand, thanks for posting the link. I'll take the time to read it thoroughly rather than post a knee-jerk response.

[stonemonkts]

Call me a naive trusting rube, but I never once thought any of the warnings were anything but genuine. I believe they garner intelligence which points them to the possibility of something happening, so they issue a warning.

If they divulged the exact basis of each warning, their intelligence efforts would be automatically nullified (or in some cases they really would scare the shit out of too many people).

If/when Kerry takes office, will you still doubt it when they issue a warning?

[groover]

Originally Posted by Paul B

...one suspects that terrorists are not trying to come in by swimming the Rio Grande; they're coming in by plane, trane or automobile.

I haven't spent much time in Texas, but I'm pretty sure that there are many times of the year when you can easily walk across the Rio Grande in many places. It's really not that "Grande". There are creeks here in Southeastern Pennsylvania that have a larger average volume of water flow. Anyone more familiar with southern Texas, please correct me if I'm wrong.

And if they're coming in by "trane", at least they have good taste in music!

[Uli]

Originally Posted by stonemonkts

If/when Kerry takes office, will you still doubt it when they issue a warning?

I hope that they will give up the scheme. Weather or not the threats and the warnings are genuine don't make a damn difference to me because we will only know if something gets blown up or if somebody gets caught trying to blow something up or whatever terrist act they are trying to commit.

[Enforcer]

People want it all. Stop all the terrorists, get rid of them all, protect our borders, keep us safe. But absolutely no infringement upon civil liberties in the pursuit of them, no delays at airports and no profiling. The United States of America, motherf**kers! Give us everything, and give it to us yesterday!

Larry

[Dr Dave]

OK, I read it. .Yes, it is bad that George W. Bush appears to actively promote a kind of insular ignorance. He doesn't travel, his education (he has said repeatedly) had no influence on his worldview, and he has made stem-cell research unnecessarily difficult.

It is also true --as an unfortunate result of 9/11--that it is becoming increasingly difficult for talented people from elsewhere in the world to come to the US to work and study.

But as far as I can tell, people are still beating down the doors (or slipping around them) to live in the US. We've just come through a tremendous wave of innovation, the results of which we're still working out. Fearing for the "creative class" seems a bit overdone, much like Robert Reich's demonization of the "symbolic analyst" was overdone in the '90s.

Anyway, it is a good thing that cities in places other than the US are now seen as attractive to creative people. When people are writing software or developing nanotechnology, it takes their minds off their religious and cultural differences.

Finally, yeah, it will be good when Kerry is president, if only because so many people in the world seem personally angry at George W. Bush. Not without reason.

[groover]

Originally Posted by Dr Dave

Anyway, it is a good thing that cities in places other than the US are now seen as attractive to creative people. When people are writing software or developing nanotechnology, it takes their minds off their religious and cultural differences.

Good point. While the U.S. may become less of a destination for educated and creative people, it may also be less of a target from the resentful regressive elements overseas. Maybe those educated folks will stay closer to home and force the backward areas of the planet to move forward and catch up, even as the conservatives here hobble our progress.

Originally Posted by stonemonkts

If/when Kerry takes office, will you still doubt it when they issue a warning?

Until his words and actions prove otherwise, people will trust Kerry. Although it was clear from the first day of his appointment that Bush was unfit for the job and not someone in which one could have confidence, he very quickly demonstrated just how incompetent and uninformed he is. Still, I think many people trusted his word until the lies began becoming a daily routine.

In other words, Bush earned our mistrust while Kerry has to be given a chance to perform. I daresay that, short of nuking the Faroe Islands, Kerry will prove to be a vast improvement over that which we have had to put up with since the supreme court foisted a misguided nitwit upon us.

[Brian Olewnick]

The Faroe Islands! Where the oe blows!

Ok, Brian...

Færøerne

[Brian Olewnick]

Damn Mac users with their fancy-shmancy graphic capabilities....

Originally Posted by Paul

They're still entering because the Bush administration has done little or nothing to improve security at other points of entry, i.e. the ports and borders.

Paul, I actually agree with you completely. And his immigration policy doesn't help either.

[patricia]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

The latest "terror threat" is a typical political ploy by the Chicken Little Hawks to keep the populace scared in hope that they will could on Shrub as a "strong leader against terror."

I'm not cynical or anything, am I?

So, if nothing happens, the Bush Administration has once again succeeded in protecting the country from global evil-doers.
If something happens, whatever is being done is clearly inadequate in the face of threats from global evil-doers. But, in that case, after the fact, the President will once again take up his megaphone, stand on the rubble, even as the bodies are being removed, and call on the rest of the country to rally behind him, preserving his carefully crafted image of a "strong leader against terror".

Interesting, but, oddly, not reassuring.

Originally Posted by Sand

I understand that the catchy headline make you and others code everything you read in red.

Well Sand, thats your biggest problem so far. You're dealing with someone who doesn't rely on headlines for their information. I'm likely one of the only ones here who has actually read all the U.N. resolutions on Iraq. I'm likely the only one here who sifts patiently through Congressional and Senate votes. I'm likely one of the only ones here who reads through those godforsaken PDF's for full reports on situations, rather then letting some talking head or hack reporter condense it for me in their own slanted words. And I'll likely be one of the very few here who actually reads the entire 9/11 commission report.

So once again, I find humor in your words.

Just one question:you thread title talks about the threat to American security. But yet you haven't really explained what "talented" people have to do with our security.

[groover]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Just one question:you thread title talks about the threat to American security. But yet you haven't really explained what "talented" people have to do with our security.

The thread title is misleading, as the article presumably concerns economic security rather than physical security, unless the talent we're losing out on is in the area of weapons technology. Einstein left Nazi Germany for the U.S. and brought us nuclear potential, but it's unlikely an Einstein will ever leave the U.S. for any country except Israel, which I believe shares most of it's military know-how with us anyway.

[clinthopson]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

I'm likely one of the only ones here who has actually read all the U.N. resolutions on Iraq. I'm likely the only one here who sifts patiently through Congressional and Senate votes. I'm likely one of the only ones here who reads through those godforsaken PDF's for full reports on situations, rather then letting some talking head or hack reporter condense it for me in their own slanted words. And I'll likely be one of the very few here who actually reads the entire 9/11 commission report.

Scotty, just 'cause you read something, doesn't mean you understand it.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

We haven't got blasted since 9/11. Something must be working. I'd feel better if the powers that be were more comitted to securing our borders than trying to force feed democracy down the Middle East's throat. But that's an old complaint.

I'm with Scott on the premise of this thread. You can't compare a downturn in immigration with people getting blown up. It's no contest.

One thing that kills me about these alerts, how can people take them seriously when in the same messages we're told to go out and keep consuming?

[frankenmeister7]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Everyday I come here thinking "there's no way in hell I will ever read anything more outrageous than I already have".



Today I stand corrected.

Terrorism - not the real threat to American securit. Then what is?


Scott, are you trying to impress people where with your rhteroic or is it just ego talking. no i take that back. it definitely is the ID.

what makes u think that what you say is gospel and that we all can't have an opinion. you are so funny, it makes me want to shoot your dog, if you have one.

Originally Posted by Frankenmeister7

Terrorism - not the real threat to American securit. Then what is?

I'm going to assume that you have some sort of condition that handicaps your reading comprehension. Because this is twice now today that you have told me something that I already knew and acted as though you were filling me in on some great revelation.

So lets try a more direct approach. Sand is the one reporting here that terrorism is not the greatest threat to the U.S. Not me. Got me so far?

I then called Sand's assertion ridiculous because I feel that terrorism is INDEED the greatest threat that our nation faces.

Does that help?

Scott, are you trying to impress people where with your rhteroic or is it just ego talking. no i take that back. it definitely is the ID.

Originally Posted by clinthopson

Scotty, just 'cause you read something, doesn't mean you understand it.

I think we are seeing proof of that, Clint.