Baseball 2004, Extra Innings

[moneyp]

Resume discussion here.

[Enforcer]

My Tigers got their asses removed and then handed to them by Dupre's WhiSox last night. F**king Bonderman. The guy does everything but yell out where he's throwing the ball when he faces the White Sox.

Larry

[Chris D]

Well, they gotta win this series to have any shot, so today's game is huge. So glad to see Aaron Rowand delivering on his promise; the guy almost died in that dirt-bike accident a couple of years ago.

Could the Yankees please return to being the Yankees? The one thing you're supposed to be able to do is BEAT THE TWINS!

Contreras won again. This is for Abbey: Contreras is now 3-0 with a 3.04 ERA since joining the Sox; Esteban Loaiza is 0-1 with a 6.75 ERA with the Yankees.

What happened to the Cleveland crew? Four losses and they bail? They're acting like Red Sox fans!

[bostontricky]

Link to Baseball 2004 thread (part one)

Boston has won nine out of last twelve; fans have responded to this apparent break in two and half months of .500 ball cautiously. I can't believe how completely average this team has played: they haven't won more than 7 out of 10 (or lost more than 7 out of 10) in almost three months. No wonder no one's excited. Or, maybe it's just the humidity.

They're going to have to win five out of six on the short trip to Chicago and Toronto for this town to get psyched again.

[HLJ]

Braves take 2 of 3 from Padres on thier own tuff.8 up in the NL east.Cox working Magic with nothing.13 in a row Soul.Peace and all that.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by Chris D

Could the Yankees please return to being the Yankees? The one thing you're supposed to be able to do is BEAT THE TWINS!

sorry about that, the Twins are superpumped to play NY after not beating them in the regular season since 2001 (!), and getting knocked out of the playoffs by them last year. add in two hot Twins starters, two Yankee starters fresh off the DL, A-Rod's suspension, and there you have it.

NY went 1-3 with A-Rod suspended. interesting to watch how NY is different with him out: he takes a lot of focus from the opposing pitcher, so even when he's not going well at the plate, his presence helps the other eight guys. I still would rather have five Yankees up with the game on the line in game 7 over him, though: Jeter, Sheffield, Matsui, Posada, and Bernie (who's looked a lot better recently), probably in that order. hopefully he'll climb up this list by October, we'll see.

Contreras won again. This is for Abbey: Contreras is now 3-0 with a 3.04 ERA since joining the Sox; Esteban Loaiza is 0-1 with a 6.75 ERA with the Yankees.

none of which is too surprising. as I said that day, they didn't think they could ever trust Contreras and how he dealt with the NY pressure. how he's dealing in Chicago is pretty irrelevant, just as dumping Armando Benitez was the right thing to do last year, no matter what he's doing this year. guys get past a certain point in NY and it's very tough to ever recover, with everyone around them expecting them to choke under pressure.

this is for you, though, Yanks already giving up on Loaiza...

http://nypost.com/sports/yankees/27122.htm

The Post has learned the Yankees and Rangers are close to a deal that would send Loaiza to the Rangers. The Yankees are going over a list of minor leaguers provided by the Rangers two days ago.

"They started talking Tuesday night and the Rangers gave the Yankees a list of four minor leaguers that was pretty light," a source said. "They were haggling over whether the Yankees would get one or two players."

The original list included Double-A second baseman Jason Bourgeois, Triple-A utilityman Ramon Navar, and Triple-A pitchers Ryan Snare and Sam Narron. Navar and Narron have limited big-league experience.

None of the names is considered a high prospect. The Rangers are expected to pay the remaining $1.16 million left on Loaiza's $3.5 million contract.

When Loaiza, 32, was acquired from the White Sox for Jose Contreras on July 31, Joe Torre said he hoped the veteran right-hander would "stabilize the rotation."

However Loaiza, an All-Star with the White Sox, has been awful in three starts, going 0-1 with a 6.75 ERA. In 171/3 innings Loaiza allowed 23 hits and nine walks. He is slated to start again Saturday against the Angels, but the Rangers are so desperate for a starter they are expected to acquire him before then.

Moving Loaiza so soon after he was acquired and less than a week after Torre and Mel Stottlemyre devised a six-man rotation to get a better look at him is an admission that getting him was a mistake. Loaiza clearly isn't the same pitcher who won 21 games a year ago and finished second in the AL Cy Young race. He was 9-6 with a 5.07 ERA for the White Sox.

Trading Loaiza will bring the Yankees back to a conventional five-man rotation. After Orlando Hernandez pitches tonight and Jon Lieber goes tomorrow night against the Angels at Yankee Stadium, Kevin Brown can be pushed up from Sunday's start to go Saturday because he would be working on five-days' rest.

[Jon Abbey]

think Loaiza will be pissed he shaved his goatee of nine years if he gets traded?

[BFrank]

Looks like Gagne is mortal, after all.

OTOH, 98 out of 100 save opportunities is still a pretty good average.

[bostontricky]

Originally Posted by BFrank

98 out of 100 save opportunities is still a pretty good average.

But is 14 out of 16 still pretty good?

BTW, I've had enough of the "blown save" being charged to non-closers. Mike Timlin got charged with a "blown save" after allowing Anaheim to take the lead in the 6th inning of a ballgame earlier this season; doubtful he would have been in the game until the end - he hasn't throw four innings in a game since he was with St. Louis.

If you have to, call it a "blown hold" or something like that.

[BFrank]

14 of 16 is NOT good?

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by BFrank

14 of 16 is NOT good?

it's ok, I'd guess a little above average.

also, all blown saves aren't equal. it's one thing to come in with the bases loaded and no one out, up by a run, and lose the lead. it's another thing to start the 9th with a 2 run lead and give up 4 earned runs, as Gagne did last night. he's certainly allowed a few bad games, but if he has many more down the stretch, it makes me question trading Mota that much more.

[Jesse]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

sorry about that, the Twins are superpumped to play NY after not beating them in the regular season since 2001 (!), and getting knocked out of the playoffs by them last year. add in two hot Twins starters, two Yankee starters fresh off the DL, A-Rod's suspension, and there you have it.

But today the local 9 have Silva hurling!

Then Cleveland for 3 days of top berth contention. I might have to go indoors for one of those.

[Chris D]

Yes, Baseball in Minneapolis. What a beautiful day for a ballgame. Let's go inside to the football shed and watch one.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by Chris D

Yes, Baseball in Minneapolis. What a beautiful day for a ballgame. Let's go inside to the football shed and watch one.

agreed, an awful joke of a stadium.

[Enforcer]

It's pretty cool when they turn on the powerful A/C fans in the outfield that blow the ball back towards the field only when the road team is at bat.

Home field advantage, baby.

Larry

[bostontricky]

Originally Posted by Chris D

Yes, Baseball in Minneapolis. What a beautiful day for a ballgame. Let's go inside to the football shed and watch one.

I'll second Jon's condemnation of the Homerdome.

Took a road trip up to Montreal back in 2002; beautiful Saturday evening (great time for a ballgame, IMHO: bang around town all day and crash for three hours at the ballpark), and 5,000 people file indoors to watch the Expos and that billiard-table green Astroturf.

[Jesse]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by bostontricky

I'll second Jon's condemnation of the Homerdome.

None of this is, of course, news. Some of us inveighed against the referendum for the Dome in the early 80's, a movement dubbed by the local press wags as "Dump The Hump Dome." This is how it can be that many real fans of the game rarely enter the giant tit. How about you, Chris? Do you capitulate when the Sox are in town?

Larry:
Some regard the A/C "advantage" theory as tantamount to Black Helicopter talk.

Framing the A/C theory with the paranoiac context for your benefit,
Jesse

[Chris D]

[QUOTE=Jesse]

How about you, Chris? Do you capitulate when the Sox are in town?

When I lived in Eau Claire, yes, I would invade the Humpty for at least one series a year. There was this cheap flea bag off of White Bear Avenue that was our enemy headquarters. I had a shirt made for the occasion; it read, "Knife the Dome." It got hearty laughs and many a "Bring back the Met" comment.

I detest how the place smells, an odor one takes along on exiting. I don't like how the ears pop when leaving the pressurized state. And heaven forbid if you get a "good seat" behind a dugout; you can't even see foul pops below you. I did like Schmidt beer, but that's a thing of the past.

My last time there was in the Sox's division-winning 2000 season. We sat down the right-field line near the visiting bullpen (the helpful box office staff said out-of-town fans like it down there, and they were right). My wife and then-infant son (both in garb: She a red, Dick Allen-era cap, the babe in a mini-Sox uni) were broadcast back to Chicago on WGN, and bullpen coach Art Kuysner threw us a ball.

[Enforcer]

Originally Posted by Jesse

Larry:
Some regard the A/C "advantage" theory as tantamount to Black Helicopter talk.

Framing the A/C theory with the paranoiac context for your benefit,
Jesse

Yeah, it's pretty weak, I admit. But see, if enough people say it with conviction, and a strong dose of contempt, it will start to sound like a statement of fact. Once that happens, then maybe will just be accepted as one, and people will be afraid to openly question it because the issue gets everyone so pissed off.

Dealing in assertion and intimidation over actual debate,
Larry

[Jesse]

In short, politics.

Admiring your skill for obfuscation-by-the-mantra-method,

Jesse

[bobetterblues]

The Tribe getting swept by the Rangers really hurts. They always seem to lose a few in a row, once they start getting hot. Lee is pitching horribly, Loaiza would be an upgrade at this point. I think he has a tired arm. The bats are still there, but the starters need to step it up.

Hafner had the day off because of a tennis elbow type injury. He's supposed to play this weekend.

I'm worried about the Twins getting revenge on the Tribe, and then being 6 games out after the weekend.

That would be typical for a Cleveland fan. Getting all excited and then being deflated in the worst way.

[MRS]

DuPre--me bloke has 10 tickets for tomorrow night's game, 13 for Sunday's game in a suite at the the Cell Block above 3B, normally $150 a pop now $50 a pop. PM me if innarested.

[Jon Abbey]

ok, DuPre/Cap'n/bo, we took out Torii Hunter for you, he ran into the wall in right-center as hard as anyone I've ever seen, so hard that he dropped the ball, and you know how sure-handed he is. he left the game eventually, I didn't hear the injury report.

[Enforcer]

Bobby Higginson really does love Chicago. His second 2 home run game in the last 3 games against the White Sox. At the start of this series, after enduring a long slump, he decided to switch bats for the first time in his career with the Tigers. He is now using Pudge's model bat, and I have a feeling he isn't changing again any time soon. Ledezma pitching a good game, but the Sox are starting to hit him hard now. Down 8-0, now the White Sox have narrowed it to 8-3. Could be a comeback brewing.

[Jon Abbey]

wow, looks like I missed an entertaining end to the Yankee game, I had to go out when they were up 9-3 in the 7th, they went down 10-9, then scored 4 off Joe Nathan, which is nice if they see him in the playoffs, before MVP candidate Rivera struck out the side on 10 pitches, 13-10 NY. they were on Nathan's pitches last night too, just hitting them at people, good to see they beat him tonight, his first blown save since May 7.

NY 8-0 when my man El Duque started, he's my current favorite Yankee. first inning tonight, guy on first, 3-1 count, ball four, Posada comes up and guns it to second as hard as he can for some reason, and El Duque disgustedly intercepts it while turning his back to the plate like a normal toss back to the mound. I love that guy.

[BFrank]

Whoa!

Gagne coughs up another one. What's up?
Maybe it really IS the Mota trade.

Geeeeez.

[crawjo]

Jon,

Are you nervous right now about the Yankees first round matchup? If the Yankees get the Twins, I'd be nervous. Both Santana and Radke have had better years than any Yankee pitcher. In fact, the Yankees starting rotation seems really unstable right now.

Of course, their offense is top-notch, as is their bullpen, but still...

[Noj]

If it ain't broke...

Maybe the trade made sense on paper, but I think LoDuca and Mota were bigger parts of what was making the team win than they thought. Pitchers get comfortable throwing to their catcher and how the catcher calls the game. Every team that does well in the postseason has a good setup guy.

This is the first time I have been excited about the Dodgers in a long time. I hope these last few stumbles by Gagne are just flukes.

[BFrank]

I hadn't thought of that LoDuca angle with Gagne. That might be a huge change for him, too.

[Jon Abbey]

Originally Posted by crawjo

Are you nervous right now about the Yankees first round matchup? If the Yankees get the Twins, I'd be nervous. Both Santana and Radke have had better years than any Yankee pitcher.

not so nervous about Minnesota, Santana would have to start game 1 in Yankee Stadium, and they can beat Nathan as they showed tonight. they were way more pumped for this series than NY was. the toughest potential matchup for NY in the first round is probably Anaheim, the middle of their lineup is really tough, Colon has killed the Yankees in the past at times, they beat NY two years ago, and Rodriguez/Percival could actually finish games against them.

In fact, the Yankees starting rotation seems really unstable right now.

but right now doesn't matter, six weeks from now does. Mussina said before his start yesterday it would take him six starts to get to 100 percent, so we'll see. I'm totally comfortable with Brown, Vazquez, Mussina and El Duque, assuming they all stay healthy, and Gordon is a luxury they haven't had before. I don't know why they're waiting on Karsay, who's said he's ready to go, he could potentially be a great guy in the 5th or 6th innings if needed.