The tinnitus thread

[Deke]

I think I've just moved onto the next phase.

Last week I went to see our old drummer's blues band. During the break I took my earplugs out to have a chat with the band, but they kinda caught me out by announcing a 10 minute break and then only taking a ten minute break. Suffice to say I was caught without the defenders in, and the first rap of the snare caused me such pain in my right ear (The one facing away from the band, incidentally) that it actually jerked me sideways. Naturally I slammed the plug in fast, and then discovered that I could actually hear the band with no pain without the left ear being plugged. I enjoyed a number like that before I pushed the other plug in.

This weekend I went to see the drummer's stepmother singing in a pub with CD backings (Ironic note - She was getting paid more, just for herself, than the band had been paid between them) and thinking this wouldn't be as loud as a proper gig, I used my 'less heavy duty' plugs. They have a slightly longer stem, and as I pushed the left plug in I think it touched the eardrum. The pain was incredible. I no longer fear the dentist or the guy that wants to find out what's living in my scrotum.

Has anyone else experienced this? Should I be worried?

[Gary Sisco]

Yes.

[Dr Dave]

If it hurts that much, you ought to seriously consider making an appointment to see an Ear-Nose-Throat specialist right away. You may have a perforated eardrum.

[clinthopson]

I recently developed tinnitus and have an appointment with an ENT guy this Thursday.

I've never been on a bandstand.

Donna does think I play my Blakey way too loud though.

Report later.

[Dr Dave]

Blakey IS loud!

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Charlie Haden has this. I believe when he performs live he has some type of plastic enclosure around him.

[Ron Thorne]

There are a number of ways in which you can acquire tinnitus, among the easiest and most certain ... excessive headphone levels. I'm reasonably confident that's why I'm experiencing that infernal, constant ringing in my ears. When in radio, I used headphones a good deal of time each day, from on-air to production recording. I didn't crank them up, and I always used open-air designed Sennheisers, still ... It's a gradual process which is hard to detect.

[Steve Reynolds]

amazingly - I have no ringing in my ears at all - and I listened to headphone about 30 hours/week at high volumes for over 10 years

stopped doing that last year

hope your'e OK, Deke

[Ron Thorne]

You're a very lucky man, Steve!

Yeah, I hope things are ok with your ears, Deke. A checkup is definitely in order.

[graypencil]

Deke ..YES ..get thee to an ENT guy soon ..the pain is a bad sign.


After 40 years in the music business, I too , have tinnitus ..and I was careful never to monitor mixes and playbacks at an excessive level. ( and when I played drums, I ALWAYS used earplugs ! )

I cant imagine what the ears of the Boomers who've spent years at rock concerts are gonna experince ( or already are ..)

[Chris D]

I'm shocked I don't have tinnitus. I spent a lot of time in my teens near big stacks, for the likes of the Who, Led Zep, Blue Oyster Cult (one LOUD ASS BAND!), even (shudder) Foghat and Nugent.

[SinginSumo]

Frequently asked questions about tinnitus:

http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus.html

**************************************************

American Tinnitus Association:

http://www.ata.org/

*************************************************

Various drugs that can make tinnitus worse:

http://www.bixby.org/faq/tinnitus/prevent.html#ototoxic (top of page)

[jazzfiend]

I hate my tinnitus with a passion. To mask it, I have music playing constantly.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by Chris D

I'm shocked I don't have tinnitus. I spent a lot of time in my teens near big stacks, for the likes of the Who, Led Zep, Blue Oyster Cult (one LOUD ASS BAND!), even (shudder) Foghat and Nugent.

Sat 5th row floor for Sabbath and Cult on the Black & Blue tour in 1980. Iommi's one guitar was as loud as Cult's five. My ears rang for two full days. No pain today but I know I don't hear as well as I used to.

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by jazzfiend

I hate my tinnitus with a passion. To mask it, I have music playing constantly.

I hear you, jazzfiend. Conversation also masks it, but everytime you have a potentially truly silent moment ...

[SEJ]

I suffer from tinnitus too. My left ear in particular; I can experience physical discomfort in that ear at times as well. I'm sensitive to excessively loud environments, and try to avoid them.

I had an examination, but they told me I had excellent hearing! "You don't understand," I said, "I can detect those tones, but they're buried in the constant ringing!" I wish I had partial hearing loss, as opposed to this!

God I wish I could take back my stupid youth...

[Nefertiti]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

Charlie Haden has this. I believe when he performs live he has some type of plastic enclosure around him.

I recently saw a live performance on TV, recorded in 2000, of Charlie Haden's Quartet West with a string orchestra. Haden wasn't placed behind an enclosure, but standing a couple of meters away from the other musicians, at the edge of the stage. Filmed by a close-up camera, he looked tired and suffering, but his playing (mostly slow solos) was great.

This page gives a similar account of a 1997 concert:

http://www.rasman.com/reviews/chaden.html

[Gary Sisco]

When I went to hear Quartet West, not only Haden but everyone else in the band was enclosed by plexiglass walls. It was a strange thing to see, but, my ears having been ringing since 1990 or so, all the time, I guess I can't blame him for not wanting his to get any worse. Still, it does seem to be a bit extreme. But, who cares. The music was great and that's all that matters. I've seen stranger things than that!

Actually, I'm putting in for a service-connected, partial disability for mine. A friend I did my hitch with, who became a lifer and officer and retired last year with more than 30 years in, received one based entirely on the hitch we did together. We both did exactly the same, very noisy, job. Twice on the same station. No one thought about ear protection in those days, stupidly. That's not totally to blame, of course, but it is partially to blame. The ear doctor told me that my tinnitus is a classic example of cumulative trauma to the ears caused by exposure over a long period to sustained excessive noise. No one thing is to blame, but that job plus firearms plus too many nights of too loud music ....

I'll tell you what. I don't wear headphones. Period. Even when I was working as a dj, I only used them while they were actually needed for the task at hand, then I took them off. Many, many people today are going to be very sorry someday for the wear and tear on their ears that headphone use has caused.

And if the sound at a show is too loud today, I walk. No show is going to so great I need to have any more ringing in my ears than I already have.

Hello folks,

Pardon me for the potentially stupid question, but I ask in all seriousness: is exposure to high-pitched sound like Sachiko M's sine waves or Toshi Nakamura's no-input mixing board a possible way to get tinnitus?

I ask because I'm wondering how I should moderate my listening to such music...

[kenny weir]

About 10 years ago my tinnitus kicked in in my left ear. I was in New Orleans for Mardi Gras - ruined my holiday, what with all those raucous brass bands and so on. It was really bad (more threatening than tinnitus as it is being discussed here), and I spent a lot of my time going to and from hospitals, getting in and out of pressure chambers etc etc. Also, talking with the insurance company about whether they should fly me home immediately - or whether it was even safe to do so.

After a lot of fuss, I made it home and the burbling racket seemed to go away - only to reappear about three months later as the ringing noise I've been living with ever since. It's actually gone through a couple of worsening stages, but then always seems to reach some sort of balance.

After a few early efforts, I gave up trying to find any sort of treatement as being a study in frustration.

Then, a couple of years down the track, I started going to see some whizz bang specialists, who wanted me to try out a digital hearing aid. Incredibly, these seem to have a healing as well as a relief aspect - i.e., wear one for five minutes, and it will take your tinnitus 30 seconds to return, wear one for three hours and it may take five minute for the tinnitus to return, and so on.

Anyway, I was all fitted up for a "free trial" with one of these doodads, when - the day before I was to pick it up - I was informed I would need to pay a security deposit. How much, I asked. $2000 I was told. It seemed clear that this was no deposit but a down payment, so I told them to shove it in very colourful language. I felt I'd been duped, and had crossed the line from patient to customer without being aware of it.

Maybe one day when I've got $6000 to spare, I'll return

Those docs did tell me a couple of interesting things, though.

In their experience, they found that how badly tinnitus affected people was not just the severity of the noise but also very much the mental aspect - for some people, very sleight tinnutus could be incredibly stressful; for others, quite significant tinnitus could be like water off a duck's back.

I don't think my case is a very bad one, but I do consider myself able to marginalise my tinnitus, put off to one side and just get on with life. Except, as Ron points out, those sweet moments of absolute silence are gone forever.

The docs also listed several factors that are known to contribute to tinnitus, although they admitted they weren't alwasy sure why (although others seem obvious):

*Stress.
*Alcohol.
*Smoking.
*Coffee.
*Salt.
*Chocolate
(Those last three apparently have a role in shrinking blood vessels).

Hmmmm ... the best that can be said for me as that I'm no longer a heavy boozer (who could finish a packet of smokes in a heavy night). Smoking? Yep, although not heavily. Coffee? Oh yes. Chocolate? Yes, but I try to keep it down and make sure it's good quality when I do (ditto with coffee, as well as decafe at home). Salt? I suspect we've all cut down on salt, although I have to confess that I see it as a major flavour enhancer for Indian cooking!

As far as music goes, I consider myself very lucky to have just become a deeper and deeper jazz fan as the years have gone by. It's nowhere near as threatening as my previous musical interests, although at least a couple of times a year I walk out of gigs. Trumpets and other brass on a wild night can be a problem. And I'm always aware of trying to find the right place to sit.

My wife - who is actually deaf in her left ear, and who is a singer,actor - has specialist musicians' earplugs. Anyone got those?

[sonic1]

I rather enjoy my tinnitis. I have had it since high school (punk rock bands in basements will do that to you).

My hearing is really good except in public places where there is a lot of background noise.

In complete silence there is definately some "feedback". It just reminds me of an ernstwhile recording...so I just enjoy it. Nothing I can do about it.

I still listen to music loud, but I don't play punk rock in basements anymore. But in my car nothing is better than blasting the ramones. Especially since it is so uncool to do that now that rap is the preferred car rumbling music of choice.

Jared

[GoodSpeak]

Originally Posted by jazzfiend

I hate my tinnitus with a passion. To mask it, I have music playing constantly.

I do the same thing.

The ringing is as annoying as it is depressing.


I can't hear the birds chirp, the digital watch alarm, or when my daughter whispers, "I love you, Daddy".


I just plain sucks.

[sonic1]

We all have fucked up bodies. That is the nature of being human and mortal. Don't let a little body degeneration get you down guys, we are all going to die. Enjoy your bag of meat while you have it.

[Gary Sisco]

Well, I don't love mine, thanks. It's been 14 years since I've heard silence. I wouldn't mind hearing it again, frankly.

Re sine waves and such. It's the volume level that's important, not what you're listening to. Listen to it -- or anything else -- too loud for too long, and you'll suffer hearing damage, sure. But not because it's sine wave music.

[clinthopson]

So I went to the ENT dude and he did all the tests, they showed a 10 yearing loss, but geez, I'm seventy fucking one. It's to be expected.

So the ENT dude hazarded a guess that the tinitus may be caused by sinus inflamation. So I've been squirting this smelly stuff up my nose for a week now and no improvement.

Shit.

[Gary Sisco]

Clint -- A bass player friend of mine told me I could cure it by quitting caffeine, sugar, alcohol and pot. I asked her why I'd want to hear anything if I had to live like that.

[Ralf Wacker]

To add my case:

Having it since i can think back makes it a diffent thing than the most other
postings before. I was already at school, 2nd or 3rd class, when i first
realized, that it is NOT normal to hear a whistle all the time.

Therefore, i am used to it. At that age you don't bother about such things.
Even today i can normally ignore it. It increases mainly by two reasons:
- Anger, trouble, stress, overworking, however you call it.
- Unexpectet shrill short noise peaks. A board falling over and slaping flat
on the floor, a knive falling on a china plate, or tinsmith work ... .

Loud music or even noise is a minor problem, as long as it isn't over the
level, that makes me feel pain instantly. So i just have to care in a concert,
not to sit in front of a speakers or in the front row opposite a large brass
ensembe. Tomorrow I'll hear Bobo Stenson, Jean-Paul Celea and Daniel
Humair ; then David Linx and Diederik Wissels Group .
The day after Charles Lloyd, Geri Allen, Reuben Rogers and Eric Harland
and second set Thierry Lang Trio . All small acoustic bands, no problem at all

Ralf Wacker

addenum: today at the player
Misha Alperin: Blue Fjord - Jaro 1993
Carla Bley / ... : The Lost Chords - WATT 2003

[clinthopson]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Clint -- A bass player friend of mine told me I could cure it by quitting caffeine, sugar, alcohol and pot. I asked her why I'd want to hear anything if I had to live like that.

Gar, no way could I get off the first and third items. Let alone big fat cigars!

Ring Dem Bells!

[Enforcer]

Loud music can not only hurt your ears, but I guess it can f**k up your lungs, too.

[AntManBee]

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

Loud music can not only hurt your ears, but I guess it can f**k up your lungs, too.

No use to quit smoking then unless the volume is turned down.