William Parker - O'Neal's Porch

Enforcer · September-10th-2004, 11:33 AM

I've listened to a lot of William Parker (and stood next to him at a urinal in Detroit a few years ago as you know if you've been paying attention), but this record really stands out for me.

For one thing, it's nice to hear Parker playing in such a structured setting for a change. It's easy to forget that he has such a soulful, swinging groove after hearing him in so many settings with a very free tempo and time that is more implied than stated. Parker and Hamid Drake have a very special musical empathy that never lets me down. Everything sounds so fresh and spontaneous.

Rob Brown and Lewis Barnes play some unison parts that remind me of something you'd hear on a 60s Dolphy record. Their solos are nice throughout the recording, and they have strong chops and a nice sense of structure. The music really bridges the old ideas of avant garde jazz with a more traditional post-bop sound. If Don Cherry's group with Ed Blackwell could have played jazz in 1962 armed with knowledge of all the music that's been played since, through 2004, it might sound like this.

Above all else, I love the rhythm section. Parker and Drake are really special together, and this is one of their highlights, IMO. Worth checking out, and it won't scare too many people away, either. For something "out," it's pretty "in."

Whatever that means anymore.

Larry

Root Doctor · September-10th-2004, 11:58 AM

This is the disc I hand to people who are curious about contemporary jazz. I can't think of a better current rhythm section than Parker and Drake, regardless of genre.

LeMo · September-10th-2004, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Root Doctor

I can't think of a better current rhythm section than Parker and Drake, regardless of genre.

Yeah, me to somehow.

But surely not in this record that I find absolutely overpraised.
I know straight ahead albums who are a lot more exciting than this one.

Pete C · September-10th-2004, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMo

absolutely overpraised.

I agree. It's good, but not something I return to often.

Tanager · September-10th-2004, 05:47 PM

I tend to agree with LeMo and Pete, although, to be utterly fair, I've heard less Parker/Drake than just about anyone else around here. This is the one session I own with Parker as a leader, and although I find it interesting, it doesn't get me going, and it doesn't get too many repeat listens. It just doesn't excite me much at all, to be honest.

Captain Hate · September-10th-2004, 06:53 PM

Sorry to break the string of nay-sayers but this stands out for me in that it's the first disc I've heard Rob Brown play with a large degree of abandon. I've always loved his tone but when I've seen him with the Whit Dickey Trio, for example, his playing is always too straight down the middle. In this one he takes risks and imo they pay off; kind of like he's been hanging with Marshall Allen or dropping acid. Or both.

And yes, Parker and Drake are a perfect rhythm machine, but you can find them doing that elsewhere.

Enforcer · September-10th-2004, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMo

I know straight ahead albums who are a lot more exciting than this one.

Do you consider this "straight ahead," LeMo?

LeMo · September-10th-2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

Do you consider this "straight ahead," LeMo?

Yes, absolutely.

Everybody here play by the rules and they don't even bring this feeling of freedom than players of their background could blow in this kind of session.

I have nothing against a post bop record, but I think that if I want to hear this kind of music, I'll find better one somewhere else.

But, that's just my opinion as you ask me.

If you like it, I can really understand it as lot of people do.

To introduce people to the music of William Parker in a "not hurting way", I think than I will go first with "Painter's Spring" (Thirsty Hear) and "Bob's Pink Cadillac" (Eremite) and upgrade to "... and William Danced" (Ayler Records).
If they bite that, they could be ready for the great adventure of, let say, "The Peach Orchard" (Aum Fidelity)?

MRS · September-10th-2004, 08:01 PM

I was thinking of this when I read Pan Hate's post: there is a bonfire under Rob's ass here which doesn't roar all that often.

Enforcer · September-10th-2004, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMo

Yes, absolutely.

Everybody here play by the rules and they don't even bring this feeling of freedom than players of their background could blow in this kind of session.

There are a lot of moments that are fairly straight ahead sounding, but then there are sections like on Rise, that are completely "out." I think this is one of the more successful recordings at seamlessly fusing all those disparate elements of modern jazz without making it sound choppy, like a contrived effort to force an unnatural mix.

Just my 2 cents.

Gordon B · September-10th-2004, 08:57 PM

I love this record so I"m in the Root Doctor/Larry camp. The funniest comment awhile back came when Reynolds praised it like no other record (that week). Frankiepop was astonished that Steve loved it. He wrote, "It isn't even avant garde."

CH, don't you like Rob Brown on "The Peach Orchard?" He's outstanding, IMO, on that one. He reminds me of Jimmy Lyons with the CT Unit.

Captain Hate · September-10th-2004, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon B

CH, don't you like Rob Brown on "The Peach Orchard?" He's outstanding, IMO, on that one. He reminds me of Jimmy Lyons with the CT Unit.

Not as much as here. You are correct in that his tone is alot like Lyons.

September-10th-2004, 11:14 PM

Rob Brown is simply ass kicking on The Peach Orchard!

I didn't warm to his playing right away, mostly because I was so completely blown away by Cooper-Moore's playing.

I actually think that it's one of the greatest albums in the history of this artform. Everyone plays WAY over their heads.

Damn near a perfect outing from start to finish.

Steve Reynolds · September-11th-2004, 02:47 AM

loved it, love it, will always love it

and the title track is all that jazz can be - no it's not avant-garde - it's just a great modern jazz record

and the key to it all is the combo of the Parker & Drake

Gordon B · September-11th-2004, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

Rob Brown is simply ass kicking on The Peach Orchard!

I didn't warm to his playing right away, mostly because I was so completely blown away by Cooper-Moore's playing.

I actually think that it's one of the greatest albums in the history of this artform. Everyone plays WAY over their heads.

Damn near a perfect outing from start to finish.

Go Scott! I've finally found somebody who loves Peach as much as I do.

Pete C · September-11th-2004, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon B

Go Scott! I've finally found somebody who loves Peach as much as I do.

It must be a right-wing thing.

Gary Sisco · September-11th-2004, 08:53 AM

Out schmout, in schmin. This is a great *jazz* record, full of life and soul, defying expectations left and right -- as a great record should.

Gordon -- I'm another Peach Orchard fan.

Re Rob Brown -- Have folks here been checking his solo records? I have four or more and like all of them. Derek Taylor called him "the Clark Kent of free jazz."

gnhrtg · September-11th-2004, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Re Rob Brown -- Have folks here been checking his solo records? I have four or more and like all of them. Derek Taylor called him "the Clark Kent of free jazz."

I rather quickly and perhaps mistakenly traded my copy of "Round the Bend" owing mostly to the drummer. He has a new one out with Parker/Drake which I'm looking forward to hearing.

Tanager · September-11th-2004, 09:33 AM

Ah, hell, I'm wishy-washy, as usual, I'll give it another listen.

LeMo · September-11th-2004, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

There are a lot of moments that are fairly straight ahead sounding, but then there are sections like on Rise, that are completely "out." .

Difficult for me to consider these "sections" to be "completely "out".

I don't even considered "The Peach Orchard" (the best record of William Parker for me too), to be "completely outside" as its two feets are much rooted in the bop.

"The Peach Orchard" is an great example of what people called "free bop". What "O'Neal's Porch" is absolutely not to my ears.

Just my Opinion, of course.

LeMo · September-11th-2004, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Re Rob Brown -- Have folks here been checking his solo records? I have four or more and like all of them. Derek Taylor called him "the Clark Kent of free jazz."

Sisco, do you have his album on Soul Note ("High Wire" with Parker and Jackson Krall, it's from 1996)?

I like it a lot. A very good "free bop" session with ballad tempo and all.
Every song are "composed" by Brown.
I like particularly the last one, "Trickster" because the accident who happen near the end (the ampli of Parker who explode? Difficult to say).
After an audible editing, the piece takes again, heavier, with some difficulties, because the machine must regain its speed.
Really a great piece of living music.

Gary Sisco · September-11th-2004, 10:29 AM

Le Mo -- Yeah, I have it. Listened to it last week, I think.

Enforcer · September-11th-2004, 11:42 AM

As Gary says, the "in" and "out" thing is not all that important. I just have trouble thinking of this music as straight ahead in the context of the neo-bop movement. That stuff is what I have in mind when I think straight ahead. That music is rooted in bebop/hard bop harmony, with fixed meter. There are sections on this recording that stray out of tempo completely. You can only have so much rubato before it bears no resemblance to bebop. I'd feel uncomfortable telling someone this was a straight ahead record if his frame of reference was, say, Eric Reed. That's all.

But hey, it's all semantics.

Stuckinagroove · September-11th-2004, 04:30 PM

Love it. One of my favorite records of the last 5 or so years. Nothing flashy, just real solid. Beautiful melodies that remind me of horace silver and ornette coleman at the same time.

relyles · September-12th-2004, 07:09 AM

Although I heard Parker on a few Roy Campbell and Billy Bang recording's, O'Neal's Porch is the recording that introduced me to William Parker as a leader and still probably my favorite Parker recording. I really like most of his other recordings that I have heard, but this one remains my favorite probably because its infectious tunes are somewhat more structured - which is helpful for someone like me me whose listening preferences don't extend completely out. I also have, The Peach Orchard, which has gotten several other mentions. I must confess that I only listened to it once on my CD walkman while on my way to a Sonny Fortune concert and was not able to focus on it completely. Think I will need to pull it out again.

I don't see it mentioned often, but I have grwon to really like the Raining on the Moon recording - mostly as a result of hearing several boots of the group that enhanced my appreciation.

September-13th-2004, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by relyles

I also have, The Peach Orchard, which has gotten several other mentions. I must confess that I only listened to it once on my CD walkman while on my way to a Sonny Fortune concert and was not able to focus on it completely. Think I will need to pull it out again.

By all means!!

You'd be doing yourself a great disservice by not spending some serious listening time with this masterpiece!

Slurpy · September-13th-2004, 01:13 PM

I'm with Larry on this one and agree with most everything he's said. I love
O'Neal's Porch and consider it one of my favorite Jazz albums of the last 5 or so years. (Can you still say album?) Never heard A Peach Orchard? Sounds interesting. Can anyone suggest a couple other albums/cd's in a similar vein
as OP? Thanks...

Pete C · September-13th-2004, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slurpy

(Can you still say album?)

"Album" is as relevant to CD as to LP. The term dates back to a collection of related 78s packaged in an actual album. When the multiple tracks could be held on a single LP disc, the term "album" stayed in the lexicon.

Sergio Zamora · September-13th-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

"Album" is as relevant to CD as to LP. The term dates back to a collection of related 78s packaged in an actual album. When the multiple tracks could be held on a single LP disc, the term "album" stayed in the lexicon.

Wow, no kidding? So album really means box set.

Pete C · September-13th-2004, 01:51 PM

The Lady Day box on Columbia was designed to look like one of those old 78 albums.