Set Lists

[cookie]

I have two reasons for posting this thread: 1) I'm curious about what other people are playing and 2) to discuss how different musicians choose what to play and in what order.

My mentor described a good set as "something old, something new and the blues." Decent advice for most straight-ahead situations. I also think venue effects choice of material and how it's played. For example, in an intimate cabaret setting, a series of ballads might be just the ticket for relaxation. An outdoor festival is another story.

So, if you wish to share your set lists, I'd love it. Would also love to hear peoples' opinions about what constitutes a good set.

Here's my set for tomorrow:

"Come Rain or Come Shine" (up, not slow)
"Indian Summer" (med. swing)
"They All Laughed" (med, but faster than the previous song)
"'Tis Autumn" (ballad--the only one)
"It Might as Well Be Spring" (samba)
Instrumental selection to feature the band
"Won't You Meet Me on the Bridge?" (original; swing)
"I Wish You Love" (med. swing/ will sing in French)
"Wheelers and Dealers (samba)
"Time's Gettin' Tougher than Tough" (blues; med shuffle)
"After He Left" (fast; vocalese version of one of my mentor's compositions)

This is to fill an hour at an outdoor festival. It's just me and a trio so the solos will likely be short.

So I'm curious: what are you playing and what your "show" is like. I realize that people selling discs, particularly on the national/international scene probably have the concern of playing their new music while satisfying an audience's craving for "old favorites" (I heard Diana Krall ran into this issue this summer. She was playing the material from her newest disc and my students who were there said that some people were shouting out for her to play standards. I think there's a measure of disrespect in that, but it happened). I know musicians who change their set everytime out depending on what they want to play at that moment and I also know musicians who use the same basic set over and over for a year (or years).

[Lois Gilbert]

Hey Cookie

I'm surprised no one responded. I'm curious and I'm not a musicians
Peace and have a great gig (sounds like a great set)

[VIBEr]

I have to qualify this statement to commercial instrumental small-combo gigs: I would speculate that jazz musicians tend to "call tunes" on the spot rather than prepare a set list in advance. Pop bands tend to play off a list to eliminate the need to shout every title across a noisy stage. But hardly any jazz band I know could recollect the actual order of the tunes by the end of the night. Being a vocalist, Cookie, I would tend to think that the specific order of your tunes is more sensitive to create that sense of drama whether a concert or cabaret gig.

[Vibeman]

Hello VIBEr,

Hope that name means you play vibes also. Anyway, I don't have a list to post, I am just getting "back" into the scene after many many years of not playing. However, something I can address is this notion of "playing anything on the spot." This tends to make the band sound like a jam session band. No organization, endings fall apart, solos get too long, or maybe even too short and tunes fall apart. A band (the complete) band should be comfortable with all the tunes the band plays.

Now having said that, if a band has a huge repertoire, then calling tunes on the spot (from their repertoire) would seem to not harm the band as everyone is familiar with the tunes and the organizational format they will be playing. As far as band members not remembering the order of the tunes, the leader or co leader should make small lists (including optional tunes) for each member of the organizational order for that gig. Many bands today are just lazy and do not even think about that. I am new to this bb and would also appreciate any and all ideas and thoughts on this topic.

To reiterate, it is one thing to "call" any jazz tune you may have a whim to play, and it is another thing to "call" a tune that is already in your bands' repertoire. I feel the audience will always know when you are "shucking and jiving" a program for them to listen to. Nothing beats professionalism.

Keep making music...

[VIBEr]

A jazz "band" in this day and age is usually not a regular band per se but a collection of whoever is available that night to play a particular gig. So it is rare that a leader can call tunes based on what is in the band's current repertoire when the band's lineup changes every gig. Again, I'm directing this observation to small commercial jazz combos playing casuals rather than big bands where everything is charted.

[Vibeman]

Originally Posted by VIBEr

A jazz "band" in this day and age is usually not a regular band per se but a collection of whoever is available that night to play a particular gig. So it is rare that a leader can call tunes based on what is in the band's current repertoire when the band's lineup changes every gig. Again, I'm directing this observation to small commercial jazz combos playing casuals rather than big bands where everything is charted.

Well I took the meaning of the previous threads to mean a "working band" and not a "call me I'll play" or freebie put together gig. These are two distinct type entities. The first should be organized and the second can never be organized unless, of course, you are calling the same players each time out. If the first is the obvious, then the band should be organized (you are playing for money, reputation and advancement, right). The second entity would seem to in the interest of the leader, calling different players. Even as such, his reputation is at stake. In that context, he/she should be very careful in the tunes he/she calls i.e., you don't want to call a tune the piano player is not familiar with, or everyone but the bass player knows the tune and the tune calls for a particular bass line the bass player doesn't know. When a tune falls apart, everyone knows it. So even if you are calling players to play say "next Sat night" it would behoove the leader to give those players an idea of what he will most likely "call" that night.

Side note, I had an occasion to listen to a "pickup" "call" band last weekend. They have played together on many occasions from the advertised calendar. However, the call was for "Blue Bossa" a tune just about all jazz musicians know, but the piano player did not know it, for some unknown reason, or he was disinterested that night. The ending is standard especially when it is a call band. The piano player didn't know it, forgot it, or didn't care, and the ending fell apart. The whole tune meant nothing at that point, the ending ruined everything instead of magnifying a nice coming together. The "band" sounded bad regardless of who was at fault. Professionalism should always be the top priority.
So if you do not have a play list, at least come to an "agreement" on a makeshift play list before the first note of the first set.


Vibeman

[chethed]

Originally Posted by Vibeman

Well I took the meaning of the previous threads to mean a "working band" and not a "call me I'll play" or freebie put together gig. These are two distinct type entities. The first should be organized and the second can never be organized unless, of course, you are calling the same players each time out. If the first is the obvious, then the band should be organized (you are playing for money, reputation and advancement, right). The second entity would seem to in the interest of the leader, calling different players. Even as such, his reputation is at stake. In that context, he/she should be very careful in the tunes he/she calls i.e., you don't want to call a tune the piano player is not familiar with, or everyone but the bass player knows the tune and the tune calls for a particular bass line the bass player doesn't know. When a tune falls apart, everyone knows it. So even if you are calling players to play say "next Sat night" it would behoove the leader to give those players an idea of what he will most likely "call" that night.

Hi Cookie! Hi Vibeman! As someone who used to play with the "call me, I'll play" types and now plays with all pros (I guess many of us are in this boat) I have found I can call almost anything from Real Book I or 2 and be safe. I tend to always have a set list, though, because I agree with another poster that it looks/sounds like a jam session if you don't, and also because it just plain seems to add too much dead air between tunes. Also, the set list just benefits me because i feel too put on the spot to have to think "OK, now for an upbeat tune... bossa tune, etc."

Here's a set list, inc. what tempo we did the tunes in, from me for a three-set gig recently:

1. Autumn Leaves (up)
Corcovado (bossa - balladish)
Moon and Sand (bossa-mid)
(love is) The Tender Trap (swing)
Over the Rainbow
(The) Fool on the Hill (ballad -instrumental arrangement)
Night and Day

2. Lucky Southern (up-latin)
On A Clear Day (ballad, then swing)
Angel Eyes (ballad)
The Days of Wine & Roses (up, swing)
Blue Daniel (mid tempo swing, waltz)
Vierge (original, ballad)

3. My Funny Valentine (samba)
Some Other TIme (ballad)
Speak No Evil(up, straight)
My Foolish Heart (ballad)
Lost in the City Together (original, med. waltz)
Watermelon Man (jam out to close gig)

Another thing - many have mentioned calling tunes, dangers of folks not knowing them, even pros, etc. I have heard conflicting info on this, but I always bring my own books for everyone even if some of the pages are copied right from the real book. Even seasoned pros forget the forms or think they know a tune and then confuse part of it with another from time to time, and my practice of bringing music prevents that. I have a stable of local pros that I use that's 2-3 deep in each instrument, and once in a blue moon, have to use a totally new guy. The music literally keeps us all on the same page, and I quickly call the arrangement or point out unusual things in it right before the downbeat. Also, many pros will disagree on which keys some things are in (is night and day in E or C?) and won't hear you right even when you say which one... again, the chart is key. I realize some musicians may bristle at this, but really good ones won't. I just say it's to make sure we're all playing the same VERSION of the changes... Recently, I sat in with the band of a former mentor who hadn't heard me since i'd gone pro. I offered the band a chart to lullaby of birdland, and the mentor later told me that that's somewhat of an insult, to offer a chart to such seasoned players. I appreciate his perspective, but that's all it is. his perspective.

Anyway, good luck, cookie. Let me know where I can hear some of your music if you don't mind - i'd love to!

chethed (Michelle Latimer, trumpeter/vocalist)

[Vibeman]

Hi Chethed,

I'm Vibeman and I was the other person who posted the "looking like a jam session band" post. I was glad to see your opinion in agreement with mine because your post was the same as mine, "not ego oriented" but rather professionalism oriented. I have this argument with a lot of guys who really think they are great and are not. No, I'm not great but I know I'm not. I do, however, have rather professional approaches to these situations though. The last group I played with had so much "dead air" between tunes that I was thoroughly embarrassed to look at the audience. The "leader" did not provide books, or copies of lead sheets and there were several clashes as to key, and form of tunes. (There are some books slightly different than Real i and ii). They finally agreed on Real i but the leader still did not take responsibility. Anyway, the endings were raggedy and based soley on what the leader felt at the EXACT moment of the first note of the ending (Basie, vamp or what have you). It was terrible.

I do appreciate your opinion when you said
"but I always bring my own books for everyone even if some of the pages are copied right from the real book. Even seasoned pros forget the forms or think they know a tune and then confuse part of it with another from time to time." right on!!

You are a true pro and too bad I can't get any guys to admit this. That is probably why hardly anyone has responded to this thread. It is a good thread and musicians need to share their point of view on this. But you see, ego works in strange ways.....

Keep playing music

Vibeman

[Vibeman]

Well it seems most of the guys are not going to respond to this thread. I personally know there is a great deal of non professionalism going on and guys are afraid to admit that they run their gigs in this non professional manner (not very macho). We've lost (as an entity) the respect of much of our audience because we are not showing them respect. They are the ones paying and should be treated accordingly. I myself hate to go to a club and watch the band in between each number and on break, trying to figure out what they are going to play next, you know "what do you want to play, well what do you want to play, I dunno, what do you want to play, well I don't have that book, or I don't have that page."

Or legitimately "I can't read that one." Now I can accept that excuse but I do not condone the avenues we take to even reach that point. (non organized).

That's all I have to say on this thread, thank you.


Vibeman

[cookie]

I hadn't even seen that this thread had been responded to. Thank you all for expressing your opinions (especially love seeing what other folks are playing! Thanks, Chethed!).

Yes, on most gigs, I just call tunes. The set list I provided was for a 1-hour concert where a more formal list was appropriate. But even when I call tunes, I tend to call 'em fast. After working in this region for a while, I have a pretty good idea of what the other players know (and can or can't hack). In fact, alot of the tunes I've chosen to learn, I chose because I heard the instrumentalists play them.

I know singers who ALWAYS have a set list (and often perform the exact same show for a year or more) but I'm more the type that plays whatever I'm feeling at the time.

Even when I'm on a gig where the tunes are being called off the cuff, we are usually mindful to mix it up: not play three tunes at the same tempo or the same key in a row, etc.

I can also sing most of the stuff from Real I and Real II and they are safe to play with unseasoned players (I also know a bunch of other tunes that I can call and what keys I sing them in). I'm lucky because I have a wide enough range to sing most songs in their original keys even if that's not where I prefer them.

When I'm working with my own band, I bring my own book so I have all my weirdo songs (I tend to sing lesser known songs) and weirdo keys. I do NOT like to work with people who don't read well because it hangs me up. I also have little sympathy because I'm also an instrumentalist and I can read and if necessary, I can transpose. If the damn singer can do that, the sidemen better be up to snuff, too.

It causes some "political" trouble because there are guys I don't mind sitting in with but would never hire simply because they are not good readers and don't know enough tunes.

Oh, the other thing is that I usually ask my sidemen if there's anything they particularly WANT to play. I usually give them a feature at the beginning of the set, and I also want to know what they want to hear ME sing. After all, they have to listen to it. It also lets me know what they like and what they think I sound good on. The songs most requested by my sidemen are "It's You I Like" by Mr. Rogers and "Won't You Meet Me on the Bridge?" a song I wrote (and it's VERY flattering when the guys you work with want to hear one of your original compositions!).

[Enforcer]

We actually pay a lot of attention to pacing the vocal parts for our vocalists. If something we play is especially challenging for the vocalist, we'll take it down a notch and do something less demanding for a couple of tunes. We try to mix uptempo numbers with ballads, but there are other considerations. If a few of the guys change instruments (like from electric guitar to acoustic), we try to group a few tunes together with the same instrumentation so there is some continuity and we're not always pausing to regroup.

The other thing is mixing in the obvious crowd pleasers with our originals, so we don't lose the audience in our self-indulgence. And the uptempo blues numbers are great at the end of the set. Everyone knows them and it gets people moving.

[cookie]

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

If a few of the guys change instruments (like from electric guitar to acoustic), we try to group a few tunes together with the same instrumentation so there is some continuity and we're not always pausing to regroup.

.

This is particularly important in the band I'm playing in regularly now (in addition to my own bands). I play piano, flute, a little bass and I sing. Sometimes, I sit at the piano and play and sing. Sometimes I come out front and sing with the other singers. The leader is really conscientious about grouping things together so that I'm not constantly running back and forth! Of course, he understands this because he also doubles (guitar, flute, harmonica).

He's a terrific, organized, professional leader and I really enjoy that band even though I have to drive an hour each week to rehearse (the cat gets gigs---LOTS of them---so I don't mind commiting regular rehearsal time to the project).

[lazaraga]

my first post here-

i am a solo jazz guitarist, just starting out in the world. i have played a few weddings and am still playing around with my set list- about 2 hours of arrangements i have made. if anyone can help me arrange my set i would be grateful. i would like to have 2 one hour sets.

right now i have written all my tunes on some playing cards, so i can shuffle them and practice them in random order to see if anything clicks.

in no particular order

rio- wayne shorter
sir duke- stevie wonder
central park west- coltrane
summer soft- stevie wonder
round midnight- monk
little wing- hendrix
3 flowers- mccoy tyner
crescent- coltrane
choro- a. c. jobim
speak like a child- herbie hancock
electric ladyland- hendrix
naima- coltrane
reflections- monk
dolphin dance- hancock
creepin- stevie wonder
tell me a bedtime story- hancock
cantaloupe island- hancock
wave- jobim
cariba- wes montgomery
blue in green- miles davis
dindi- jobim
con alma- dizzy gillespie
cousin mary- coltrane
the thumb- wes montgomery
blues boogie- original
so what- miles
black nile- wayne shorter


peace

[Vibeman]

Originally Posted by lazaraga

my first post here-

i am a solo jazz guitarist, just starting out in the world. i have played a few weddings and am still playing around with my set list- about 2 hours of arrangements i have made. if anyone can help me arrange my set i would be grateful. i would like to have 2 one hour sets.

With all due respect, this IS something you have to do if you are the leader. You might want to consult your band to see how they feel or how any particular sequence of tunes affects their playing etc. But at this level you don't need an outsider arranging your list of tunes. It is a big assumption that an outsider would be familiar with all of your selections.

[lazaraga]

Originally Posted by Vibeman

With all due respect, this IS something you have to do if you are the leader. You might want to consult your band to see how they feel or how any particular sequence of tunes affects their playing etc. But at this level you don't need an outsider arranging your list of tunes. It is a big assumption that an outsider would be familiar with all of your selections.

thanks for your input.
fyi, i am the band. i play solo jazz guitar.

i just put my list out there, a- because the thread starter was curious about others' sets, and b- in the off chance anybody might have some ideas on how to arrange my set list. either ideas in general or specific.

i'm not asking for hand holding, just input and insight.

peace

[cookie]

lazaraga:

It *is* hard to put together someone else's set list and no matter how big your catalogue of tunes, each situation will call for something a little different.

I think there are all kinds of ways to go but here's how I try to think of what I play:

1. The opener should be something fairly upbeat. It often helps attract people's attention if it's a tune they know. Caveat: if you open with a jazz version of a pop/rock tune, you may be mistaken for a pop/rock performer. I try to open with something that is fun and that swings. The opener sets the mood and introduces you to the audience.

2. I try to vary tempos, rhythmic grooves and keys to create a nice flow. I sort of think of each set as putting together an album.

Looking at your list, if I were in the audience and I heard "Cariba" as an opener, I'd perk up, but that's because I'm a Wes fan (The Thumb would do it for me, too). Something uptempo and fun to start with, though.

[lazaraga]

Originally Posted by cookie

lazaraga:

It *is* hard to put together someone else's set list and no matter how big your catalogue of tunes, each situation will call for something a little different.

I think there are all kinds of ways to go but here's how I try to think of what I play:

1. The opener should be something fairly upbeat. It often helps attract people's attention if it's a tune they know. Caveat: if you open with a jazz version of a pop/rock tune, you may be mistaken for a pop/rock performer. I try to open with something that is fun and that swings. The opener sets the mood and introduces you to the audience.

2. I try to vary tempos, rhythmic grooves and keys to create a nice flow. I sort of think of each set as putting together an album.

Looking at your list, if I were in the audience and I heard "Cariba" as an opener, I'd perk up, but that's because I'm a Wes fan (The Thumb would do it for me, too). Something uptempo and fun to start with, though.

thanks for your ideas. i do make sure that each song is in a different key than the one before, and try to vary tempos.
usually i open with 3 flowers, and close the sets with the wes montgomery tunes. didn't think about playing a wes tune first, good idea.

peace

[VIBEr]

lazaraga,

Since you are working as a soloist, allow me to suggest something 180 degrees away. Try forgetting the setlist and use a stream-of-consciousness way of structuring a set.

The reason is this: If you're playing solo, that means that you can (or should) memorize all your regular tunes (excepting requests). Then you can start a set by just looking at an audience and just going with whatever hits you at the moment. Then proceed with the next tune that just pops into your head. The advantage is that audiences and room conditions vary from gig to gig, and forcing the same set order in every situation can result in a less-effective and less-satisfying gig overall. You will also find yourself more in synch with your audience througout the night.

So basically what I'm saying is to trust your instincts, and I'll bet you'll be glad you did.

[lazaraga]

Originally Posted by VIBEr

lazaraga,

Since you are working as a soloist, allow me to suggest something 180 degrees away. Try forgetting the setlist and use a stream-of-consciousness way of structuring a set.

The reason is this: If you're playing solo, that means that you can (or should) memorize all your regular tunes (excepting requests). Then you can start a set by just looking at an audience and just going with whatever hits you at the moment. Then proceed with the next tune that just pops into your head. The advantage is that audiences and room conditions vary from gig to gig, and forcing the same set order in every situation can result in a less-effective and less-satisfying gig overall. You will also find yourself more in synch with your audience througout the night.

So basically what I'm saying is to trust your instincts, and I'll bet you'll be glad you did.

right on. i do have everything memorized. i like to have a list handy though because i tend to forget what tunes i have memorized!
i don't think i have played a gig where i didn't modify the set list as i went on.

i realize this is a topic with no easy answers, but it is something i have been very interested in lately. thanks for sharing the ideas.

peace

[Vibeman]

this thread needs to stay alive!!


Having said that, I do not offer a tune list but.... I find a certain FORMULA works and has worked very well with myself and a number of successful musicians. On jazz club dates (four sets).

Set 1 - easy openers, to active bossa, or samba, to a recognizable blues, to a couple standards and then a strong closer.

Set 2 - open strong with some catchy crowd pleasers, then stronger straight aheads, then strong ballad, then good strong recognizable standards (or originals), and close with a strong latin, calypso or samba.

Set 3 - open strong latin - samba or calypso, then strong recognizable blues, good medium standards (or originals), good recognizable ballad (or original), another strong blues, close good very strong straight ahead.

Set 4 - (if many patrons left) - do all good strong stuff, a ballad, a good bossa, a good blues, close with strong straight ahead.


Set 4 - (if club relatively empty) - do anything you want especially weaker stuff you need to work on as a group. BUT CLOSE with something strong and good anyway to show you care about those that stuck it out.

Sets 1-4: (That is unless you are playing ALL ORIGINALS). Then take your pick but attempt the formula set forth if you have the tunes to fit said formula.

p.s. You must be aware that this formula is not set in stone but rather it worked very well for me.

[JazzAt52ndStreet]

Heres the set for an up comming gig from my quintet:

Descarga De Hoy
Angel Eyes (up)
Witch Hunt
All Blues
Black Orpheus
Chameleon
Sidewinder
Oleo
Take 5, Then Take 11

set 2

Breakfast Wine
So What/Impressions
Girl From Ipanema
Speak No Evil(C Minor Medeley)
Blue Monk
Stolen Moments
Ode To Mario
Cold Duck Time
A Night In Tunisia

Any suggestions? The gig isn't till the 4th. It's 3 hours at a resturant/lounge type thing.

If you're in the bay area and are interested in checking it out, details are on the website:
www.soundclick.com/mindmusix