Maria Schneider - Concert in the Garden

[mke]

My first Schneider album. Haven't listened to it much yet so no detailled commentary, but it strikes me as very, very nice music.

Counter-intuitively, the very beginning sounds like an ending, the rhythm section winding down for about 1.5 minutes. Otherwise, you get a lot of extended themes and rich settings for postbop solos. There's a Brazilian feel lent by some of the titles and percussion instruments. The second part of "Three Romances" entitled "Pas de Deux" is the album's emotional core, as various instruments make delicately tender statements over a shifting, slow-moving background.

Anyone else heard this?

[Jim Dye]

I just received this in the mail yesterday. I hope to give it a good listen in the next week. Most of my friends who have this say its her best work yet.

[graypencil]

I'll chime in here ..

I'd say this Cd has what her others lacked somewhat IMO: very good melodic material ..

Maria has always been an excellent "colorist" and a master of pastellish musical textures, but with this CD , she's REALLY shown me something melodically thats a real step forward ..again IMO

4.5 stars!

[Rob Damen]

I said it once, and I'll say it again:

An absoulte bore and totally unmemorable!!!!

Cheers,

Rob

[Mike Schwartz]

Her orchestra is a magnificent musical outfit!

Frank Kimbrough, who has a thread over at musicians, makes some fantastic contributions, Ingred Jensen some stellar work among several others as soloists, and some tastey wordess vocal contributions bt Luciana Sousa.

I couldn't put it into words as da'pencil can, but I sense moving up to a yet higher level for Maria as a writer. I think that part of it is simply that 20 top flight musicians have totally gotten on board for this wonderful ride...that unmistakable combination of hard work,dedication, and chemistry.

[mke]

Originally Posted by Mike Schwartz

some tastey wordess vocal contributions bt Luciana Sousa.

Yes, the "voice among instruments" thing can be tricky, it's really well done here. Among many other very well done things.

[james harrigan]

I had the great good fortune to hear this orchestra last night at the Jazz Standard. it was superb. It was also nice to see her selling the joint out: we arrived a bit late and even with our reservation we had to sit at the back of the bar, and they had a full house for the last set also.

I love the CD, but I can understand that it is not for all tastes (but Rob, "a total bore"? listen again, my friend). The purpose of Schneider's orchestra is to play her compositions, rather than to highlight soloists, and while the solo passages on the disc are outstanding it is the orchestral setting that makes this a great disc. The music is very melodic and dynamic, not at all just static whispery coloration. This is not big band music, and I'm not sure it is jazz, but it is certainly jazz derived and I love it. It is also wonderfully recorded, apparently it was the last effort by David Baker and he was able to hear the final product just before he died. Highly recommended.

[jazzy mary]

This cd just got 4 and one-half stars in DB too. wonder if I would like it. I heard the Orchestra a couple of years ago at the JS but found it too overly Gil Evans influenced.

[mke]

As James mentioned, there aren't too many out-and-out solos. I think it is only on the last track that there is first a long, very vertical tenor solo, over a fairly static background, which is then countered by a more horizontal, lyrical trumpet (maybe flugelhorn?) solo with more animated support.

But what impressed me most was how themes were constantly passed about between instruments, improvised fragments came and went and how Schneider carefully utilised her resources: there are relatively few moments of everyone is playing at once.

This is very much an album for the large-scale jazz composition thread.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

I said it once, and I'll say it again:

An absoulte bore and totally unmemorable!!!!

Cheers,

Rob

I haven't heard it yet, but I'm a big Schneider fan. I'd take the above with a grain of salt, coming as it does from a listener who considers "Big Train" an important work.

[graypencil]

Originally Posted by jazzy mary

This cd just got 4 and one-half stars in DB too. wonder if I would like it. I heard the Orchestra a couple of years ago at the JS but found it too overly Gil Evans influenced.

JM:

This is still pretty firmly within that category, and as I said is very well done, but it might not be your glass of absinthe

[james harrigan]

Originally Posted by jazzy mary

This cd just got 4 and one-half stars in DB too. wonder if I would like it. I heard the Orchestra a couple of years ago at the JS but found it too overly Gil Evans influenced.

I think you'd like it, JM.

I wonder about the Gil Evans comparison, though. Believe it or not I never had any Evans in my collection until I bought Concert in the Garden and then got curious about Schneider's influences. I bought Porgy and Bess, which is OK, though I don't think it will ever become a favorite. But what I like much more about CIG than P&B is that the latter is very much a backing for Miles, and the orchestrations themselves seem of secondary importance. In CIG, the orchestrations are what it is all about.

that said, I don't want to play down the solos on CIG too much. Frank Kimbrough, Ingrid Jensen, Charles (?) Pillow, and Donny McCaslin among others play some great solos. To what extent their solos are improvised or written out by Schneider, I don't know.

I'd be quite interested to hear what other, more knowledgeable folks think about the Schneider-Evans comparison, and perhaps how CIG compares to her earlier (maybe more derivative?) records.

[jazzy mary]

James, surely you have "Sketches of Spain"? You know my taste pretty well, so maybe I would like it.

[Pete C]

Schneider's first two albums were pretty, perhaps overly, Evans-influenced. I think she really came into her own with "Allegresse." While the Evans influence is still there, it doesn't seem derivative.

I disagree about Evans' orchestrations for Miles being of secondary importance. I think they are of equal importance, and among the greatest achievements in the world of jazz.

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by jazzy mary

This cd just got 4 and one-half stars in DB too. wonder if I would like it. I heard the Orchestra a couple of years ago at the JS but found it too overly Gil Evans influenced.

Aren't there a few JM *honeys* on that band? Ask them!

Seriously, Frank Kimbrough for one, just LOVES the opportunity as a continuing memeber of Maria's orchestra.

[Frank Kimbrough]

I've seen numerous mentions of the solos on Maria's recordings, with people wondering whether they're improvised or written out - they're definitely improvised, though the players have been with her long enough to know the music well, and incorporate the development of her melodies into their solos. Just thought I'd try to clarify that point, and glad to hear that (almost) everyone appreciates the recording. Playing in Maria's band for the past 11 years has been one of life's greatest gifts to me, and I'm sure most of the guys in her band would agree. Mike - you were posting as I was writing mine - you are correct, sir!

[Mike Schwartz]

I got the information from a good source;-)

[Steve Reynolds]

I'd like to hear the new one - I had the same feelings as Pete (although I am a charlatan) about the first two - havn't listened to any of the subsequent recordings - overly derivative and lacking in good melodic material

and for my taste, she needs some players (maybe like McCaslin) who could at least once in a while play with a little fire to go along with the sweetness and moods that she aspires to attain.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

(although I am a charlatan)

You're a charlatan as well as a fraud?

[Steve Reynolds]

both - according to you

or are they not the same thing?

or am I lacking in my understanding of semantics

btw - I curious, why am I a fraud?

We happen to have large overlapping areas of taste in music

plus I'm an excellent cook, although I have no evidence of that - but my cooking is most definately *mainstream*

[Mike Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

I'd like to hear the new one - I had the same feelings as Pete (although I am a charlatan) about the first two - havn't listened to any of the subsequent recordings - overly derivative and lacking in good melodic material

and for my taste, she needs some players (maybe like McCaslin) who could at least once in a while play with a little fire to go along with the sweetness and moods that she aspires to attain.

It could very well be that the word 'fire' maintains [ in reference to musicians expressing themselves instrumentally] the thought that a high level of passion, a certain jazz athleticism is what is being eluded to.

Make no mistake about it, the words *sweetness*and *moods* translate in the efforts of the members of this orchestra into deeply impassioned, thoughtful, dedicated, all out efforts similar to those that may get ones attention in other settings.

[Rob Damen]

Originally Posted by Pete C

I haven't heard it yet, but I'm a big Schneider fan. I'd take the above with a grain of salt, coming as it does from a listener who considers "Big Train" an important work.

Your memory escapes you. For the record, I've said plenty of times that I wasn't much of a fan of "Big Train". Looks like your memory could use a different level of seasoning beyond salt, sir.

As I've said before, she writes interesting sections and knows how to connect those ideas together technically, but I never end up remembering the themes much. It's as appealing as aural wallpaper can be, I suppose. I liked "Hang Gliding" a lot, but ask me to recall any of its sections, and I'd be at a loss. Somebody mentioned Evans, and there's nothing here that strikes me like a "Solea" or "Time of the Barracudas".

I'd much rather listen to Villa-Lobos, de Falla or Rodrigo doing ideas that are not all that dissimilar. The turn-of-the-last-century French and Russians do this sort of thing much better.

Cheers,

Rob

[Pete C]

Steve, I only called you a fraud because it seemed more polite than full of shit.

[Steve Reynolds]

point well taken, Mike

probably more of a statement about my tastes these days more than anything else - I'm sure the band would be terrific live as James was lucjy enough to hear them the other night - I would love to hear them live - a good or great large ensemble in a good setting live is tough to beat for pure exhilaration and pure sound

on the other hand a poorly rehearsed or disjointed performace by 15-20 musicians is pretty hard to deal with for me

the bands I havn't seen live that I would most like to are pretty much all large ensembles (Instabile, Globe Unity, Barry Guy's LJCO or New Orchestra, Vandermark's Transatlantic Band, etc). I think because of economics, these types of bands are more overlooked and underappreciated than they would be if the reality of jazz economics were not what they are.

I like Gil's Out of the Cool quite a bit - but I even wish there was a bit more fore and brimstone there - and plus I am a big fan of all the Gil/Miles collaberations - and Miles is not known for fire - and it's the beauty of his playing with the bacjdrop of Evans' timeless arrangements that make that music work for me (and many others)

[mke]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

- and Miles is not known for fire -

That's an odd statement. I have a number of albums where he's as firey as anyone.

[Steve Reynolds]

I'm gonna try like hell to get to the city on 10/24 to see Misha and Han with the crew of musicians I love - common ground there?

you're the only one I know who has seen the *great* Italian Instabile Orchestra live - are they full of shit? or is it just me?

but as far as ICP, I wish they would knock out some of their bullshit and play the music - especially lots of Nichols/Monk/Ellington

[Steve Reynolds]

not the Evans collaberations, mke

a few moments here and there, but is mostly the classic mellow Miles on the three great albums

[mke]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

not the Evans collaberations, mke

Okay, I thought you meant generally.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

you're the only one I know who has seen the *great* Italian Instabile Orchestra live - are they full of shit? or is it just me?

apples & oranges

[jazzy mary]

Originally Posted by Mike Schwartz

Aren't there a few JM *honeys* on that band? Ask them!

Seriously, Frank Kimbrough for one, just LOVES the opportunity as a continuing memeber of Maria's orchestra.

Hi Mike, I don't think I have any "honeys" in that band. I know Frank loves working w/ Maria. I adore Frank (and vice-versa, I think) but I can't say Frank is a "honey". Hmmm, I'm not sure if I have any "honeys" maybe sweeties! At any rate, yes, all of Maria's orchestra members will say they love it and love her.
And that's wonderful!