Dolan: Wynton Marsalis over Lee Morgan?

[crawjo]

A controversy may be brewing. In a thread over in Speak Out, Scott Dolan, candidate for President on the Socialistic Party ticket, indicated that he had heard, and perhaps had even purchased, Wynton Marsalis's "Magic Hour." In the same post, Dolan intimated that he was familiar with much of the Marsalis oeuvre, as he was able to unfavorably compare "The Magic Hour" to "Big Train."

I think a question all voters will have to answer is, how much money has Dolan spent on Marsalis records, and when did he spend it?

Possibly even more incriminating, in a private email in May I suggested to Dolan that he get Lee Morgan's classic "Search for the New Land." In the time since, I have not heard Mr. Dolan make any remarks about "Search for the New Land," and yet now this reference to "The Magic Hour" comes up. If indeed Scott bought "The Magic Hour" instead of "Search for the New Land," then I think we have a serious crisis of confidence.

Additionally, one has to ask: Has Mr. Dolan been spending money on Marsalis records, when said money could have been spent on the Jimmy Lyons box? At last report, Dolan did not have THAT either.

If it is the case that Mr. Dolan owns a copy of The Magic Hour, but does not own a copy of either "Search for the New Land" OR the Jimmy Lyons box, how can we trust him to spend his money wisely should he hold the highest office in the land?

[Tom Storer]

It is hardly credible that these McCarthy-ite tactics are coming from a man who has called Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong "overrated." I would like to know whether or not crawjo spent good money on the Jimmy Lyons box when his own record collection was lacking various masterpieces by Armstrong or Ellington. If so, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Huh!

[Tanager]

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

It is hardly credible that these McCarthy-ite tactics are coming from a man who has called Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong "overrated." I would like to know whether or not crawjo spent good money on the Jimmy Lyons box when his own record collection was lacking various masterpieces by Armstrong or Ellington. If so, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Huh!

Not only that, but he's out to purchase everything in the Braxton catalog before so much as getting a single Mulligan release. He's clearly trying to obfuscate the real issue here.

[stonemonkts]

Crawjo and Dolan are both highly suspect.

In addition to the fine points already posted, I'd add that Mr. D has YET to pick up the classic AND essential Sonny Rollins Prestige box.

Losers both.

[Jazzzoline]

This is off thread, I know, but once I've wrote in a speakeasy's thread that I didn't like Marsalis music (Wynton). Lately, I listened to my mp3s like I use to do when I work. Then, there was this music playing, I had to look who it was. So I guess maybe I like some Wynton's work. The problem is, I didn't have the title of the album and the songs either.

*I had to tell it somewhere*

[Tom Storer]

Jazzzoline, there is nothing wrong with enjoying something by Wynton. It is crawjo's taking the moral high ground in condemning Scott for enjoying Wynton before investigating Lee Morgan, while he himself makes a similar choice to go with his own tastes before bowing to conventional rankings, that is evidence of hypocrisy most foul!

Decent men and women everywhere must rise up to protest.

[jazzy mary]

Scott doesn't have "Search for the New Land"???!!! I ain't voting for him!

[sonic1]

While I have serious problems with the mentioned candidate, seeking out the facts is not one of them. While Dolan may own Marsalis records, I have yet to see a JC law that states one should base judgements on an artist without investigation. And with Crawjo's recent transgression (Talking shit about Dolphy) there is obviously a smear campaign in progress. Is Craw trying to take the attention off of his mentioned distaste for greats Dolphy and Ellington?

Dolans "transgressions" are hardly comparable to those of our Craw.

[Chris D]

But where do they stand on Ted Curson? That is the real turning point in this race.

[crawjo]

I would like to announce that I am running as a third party candidate. I will be running on the anti-Dolphy platform.

My campaign slogan comes from the man, Miles Davis, himself:

"That's got to be Eric Dolphy--nobody else could sound that bad!"

My campaign strategy will be to appeal to anti-Dolphy voters in the deep South, thus cutting into Dolan's electoral base. If Scott wants to stop me from running, he can incorporate some of my ideas into his campaign, INCLUDING an acknowledgment that he is committed to a socialist revolution.

[crawjo]

Also, Mr. Dolan, the question remains unanswered: Which is it: "Search for the New Land" or "The Magic Hour"? The people have a right to know. Why are you hiding from the people?

Originally Posted by Tanager

Not only that, but he's out to purchase everything in the Braxton catalog before so much as getting a single Mulligan release. He's clearly trying to obfuscate the real issue here.

And as some here already know, one of my campaign slogans is "eschew obfuscation".

Originally Posted by Stoner

In addition to the fine points already posted, I'd add that Mr. D has YET to pick up the classic AND essential Sonny Rollins Prestige box.

Yet another embarrassment of my misspent youth. But I freely admimt to this. I also must point out that I DO have some of Rollins albums. And I love his playing, and have even stated here before that his playing sounds much more advanced than what Coltrane was doing at the same point in time.

Therefore, that puts me lightyears ahead of our good commie crawjo, who revels in his hatred of Eric Dolphy, and now callously decides to adopt and embrace this most incendiary statement:

Originally Posted by Commiejo

"That's got to be Eric Dolphy--nobody else could sound that bad!"

I ask you, good citizens, has a greater hatred ever shown it's ugly face around here before?!

I think it may be high time to start adopting a more drastic solution for this embodiment of evil.

Originally Posted by Sonic1

Is Craw trying to take the attention off of his mentioned distaste for greats Dolphy and Ellington?

Certainly there can no longer be any doubt.

[crawjo]

And where do you stand on Coltrane's classic "Interstellar Space"? If I recall correctly, you are not too found of that album, are you Mr. Dolan?

You profess to be a lover of Coltrane, yet you compare him unfavorably to Rollins in the 1950s, and you disparage his post-1965 work. What sort of Coltrane fan are you?

How can we elect such a waffler? "I didn't like John Coltrane, but then I did, but then I didn't." What is it? The American people demand resolute leadership!

Posters of the world unite! Down with Goldbugs! Down with Silverites! Down with Free Masons! Down with Jacobins! Down with "Slocialists!" Down with Dolphyism!

Vote Crawjo.

[sonic1]

This dolphyist has this to offer: What other than pure genius can take a man with such a short life and make such a huge impact on the jazz universe. To admit you don't get it would be honesty. To denigrate the art of one so influential and adored by many many great artists, based on one's own taste is a selfish act of aesthetic piracy. Admit it, Craw, that it is your own deficiencies that deprive you of Dolphy appreciation and let it go. We'll love you no less for it.

Originally Posted by Better Red then deadjo

And where do you stand on Coltrane's classic "Interstellar Space"? If I recall correctly, you are not too found of that album, are you Mr. Dolan?

I do not recall making any such statement. But the media has often twisted my words, taken statements and displayed them in a rather devious and out-of-context fashion.

But allow me to say right now that Interstellar Space is indeed a Coltrane album which I possess. I am a huge Coltrane fan, and a lover of Jazz in general. Jazz is the most brilliant artform on the planet, and John Coltrane was a practitioner of said artform. Furthermore, it must be remembered that Stellar Regions is also a Jazz album by John Coltrane. I have listened to both, yes. Many times. How many times I've listened to each really cannot be determined, but you have to remember Interstellar Space and Stellar regions were interchangable back then. And yes, they are both part of my Coltrane collection, which I love.

You profess to be a lover of Coltrane, yet you compare him unfavorably to Rollins in the 1950s, and you disparage his post-1965 work. What sort of Coltrane fan are you?

Let me be clear. I never compared Coltrane unfavorably to Rollins. When I was younger, I may have said something to the effect of "Rollins playing sounds more advanced than Coltrane's", but over time I have had the oppurtunity to learn and continue to grow as both a listener and a human being.

I do now realize that Coltrane was indeed the better of the two.

How can we elect such a waffler? "I didn't like John Coltrane, but then I did, but then I didn't." What is it? The American people demand resolute leadership!

Another product of media spin. I actually had decided that I truly DID like Coltrane, before I decided that I didn't. But the reasons were financial. I was in love with his music, but was left wondering where the money was going to come from to support my growing Coltrane collection.

But let me say once again that my position on Coltrane has never changed.

[GoodSpeak]

Lee Morgan was a genius.

So much great BeBop output in such a short span of life.


I know Scott is a fan of Wynton Marsalis, same as I am...but for a very different reason: He promotes Jazz like no other musician, past or present, ever has.

Not ever.



I seriously doubt the veracity of anyone who might suggest Scott favors Marsalis over Morgan.




In from the cold abyss...feel free to ignore.






SOP, bay-bee.

[Rob Damen]

Magic Hour's better!!!!!

Take that, Crawdaddy!!!!!

Cheers,

Rob

[Dr Dave]

I don't see any problem whatsoever with not only owning but listening to recordings by Wynton Marsalis. I myself have been listening to the "Live At The Village Vanguard" box, and find it to be first-rate in every respect. Let's be a little less doctrinaire here, all right? Quibbling about Coltrane vs. Rollins---don't you guys realize there's a war on? Did you think Kenny G was going to roll over and die?

I salute Scott and his open-mindedness--when it comes to jazz music, of course.

On other matters, what do you want me to say? He used to be a nice guy and now he's a dick? He was always a dick! He's proud of it!

Originally Posted by Finch

I myself have been listening to the "Live At The Village Vanguard" box, and find it to be first-rate in every respect.

Couldn't agree more, brother Finch. Any Marsalis release that gets Reynolds thumbs up is bullet proof as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by Finch

On other matters, what do you want me to say? He used to be a nice guy and now he's a dick? He was always a dick! He's proud of it!

Dammitt Finch, you still know how to make me feel warm all over.

[sonic1]

Originally Posted by Rob Damen

Magic Hour's better!!!!!

Take that, Crawdaddy!!!!!

Cheers,

Rob

Rob, do you only show up in threads regarding Marsalis?? I have never seen you post anywhere else.

Originally Posted by Goodz

I know Scott is a fan of Wynton Marsalis, same as I am...but for a very different reason: He promotes Jazz like no other musician, past or present, ever has.

No, that is one of my reasons as well.

Yes, unfortunately he does tend to run off at the mouth. But that's cool, so do I.

Much of his music is great, while some is truly horrifying.

I'll waste my time focusing on the good music that he has made.

And no, Rob. The Magic Hour doesn't qualify. I had high hopes for his new contract with Blue Note.

It's not off to a very good start.

And that's a shame. I'm sure he has another "Black Codes" in him somewhere.

[sonic1]

I went and listen to some more current Marsalis after our debate some time ago. Boy was that a let down. I believe someone told me that since black codes there have been improvements. I listened to "Popular Songs: the best of Wynton Marsalis", "In Gabriel's Garden", "Jump Start and Jazz", and some other I can't remember.

*** yawn ***

So far nothing that I have heard has pushed beyond what I have heard in Black Codes. (hey look scott we agree on something again...) But I don't like all of black codes either, though most of the album is good.

[Tom Storer]

Crawjo, what is your program other than "I hate Dolphy"? I've never seen such a negative campaign.

And another thing: I deny that Coltrane was better than Rollins. I wouldn't say Rollins is better than Coltrane, either, but as far as I'm concerned, both inhabited, at various points of their career, the absolutely tippy-top of jazz, better than which no one can get.

I object to the way you are wrapping yourself in the Coltrane flag... any opponent is a traitor to Coltrane. I see very well that your insidious plan is to chip away at our civil liberties until anyone who prefers Rollins to Coltrane or Konitz to Dolphy will be harassed, persecuted, spied upon, and perhaps even thrown into a dark cell forever without trial. Crawjo = fascism!

[mke]

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

I seriously doubt the veracity of anyone who might suggest Scott favors Marsalis over Morgan.

I seriously doubt the veracity of several posters to this board, yet I force myself to believe.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Tom Storer

Crawjo, what is your program other than "I hate Dolphy"? I've never seen such a negative campaign.

And another thing: I deny that Coltrane was better than Rollins. I wouldn't say Rollins is better than Coltrane, either, but as far as I'm concerned, both inhabited, at various points of their career, the absolutely tippy-top of jazz, better than which no one can get.

I object to the way you are wrapping yourself in the Coltrane flag... any opponent is a traitor to Coltrane. I see very well that your insidious plan is to chip away at our civil liberties until anyone who prefers Rollins to Coltrane or Konitz to Dolphy will be harassed, persecuted, spied upon, and perhaps even thrown into a dark cell forever without trial. Crawjo = fascism!

My program is based on a redistribution of the means of production, through violent means if necessary, in order to make way for the onset of the dictatorship of the proletariat. My program is bloody revolution.

Dolphyism is an insidious disease that is destroying our society. In such contexts, "freedom" is truly illusory. As far as Coltrane goes, think of it this way: Coltrane = Lenin, Dolphy = Trotsky. Dolphyites must be purged.

Saying that Sonny Rollins may have been Coltrane's equal means that, if elected, I will have to send you to North Dakota to live and work in a "reeducation" camp.