Non-Jazz Composers You Love

sonic1 · October-15th-2004, 12:40 PM

I have noticed a lot of composers mentioned lately. I am curious to what extent people are listening to "composed" music.

I generally favor the string quartets, and small ensembles.

Lately I have been playing a lot of Shostakovich, Bartok, Weill, Scelsi, Berg, Shoenberg, Kurtag, Crumb, Schnittke, Webern, Nono, and the more standard composers (Mozart, Bach, Beethoveen, et al) -by lately I mean the last few years.

I also really dig the more experimental composers like Berio, Stockhausen, Boulez, Branca, Cage, Lucier, Chowning, Cowell, Wolff, Xenakis etc.

If I am in the right mood I love Arvo Part. But that is not always the case.

Oliver Messiaen's organ works, however, have been a constant habit since I found them.

Ligeti is my all-time favorite composer. His vocal works are my favorite.

I am looking forward to getting into some new composers, especially from the Olivieros camp-which I have some recordings of but this camp I am generally ignorant about.

Jared

sonic1 · October-15th-2004, 12:49 PM

I have only listened to Riley and Curran a few times (have read a lot about them). I forgot the title of the book on minimalism I read but it got my appetite going...

Do you have recordings you like more than others?

Sergio Zamora · October-15th-2004, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic1

Do you have recordings you like more than others?

Brian Olewnick · October-15th-2004, 01:00 PM

re: Curran, I think his pieces for solo piano, "Era Ora" and "For Cornelius" (available on New Albion, I think, with Ursula Oppens on piano) are quite beautiful. I've been less enanmored of his electro-acoustic improv like "Animal Behavior" and the thing with ROVA.

graypencil · October-15th-2004, 01:13 PM

To your above list ( which also contains many of my favorites as well ) I'd like to add a couple less known composers:

Fisher Tull
Joseph Schwantner
Peter Mennin

sonic1 · October-15th-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graypencil

To your above list ( which also contains many of my favorites as well ) I'd like to add a couple less known composers:

Fisher Tull
Joseph Schwantner
Peter Mennin

Wow. Totally unknown and unfamiliar to me. Want to elaborate?

Gentle Giant · October-15th-2004, 01:41 PM

By definition, shouldn't this be in the Alley?

Being more useful:

I hear Beethoven and Mozart are pretty good
Smetana
Reich
Stravinsky
Berg
Elgar
Brian Wilson

(not necessarily in this order)

Sergio Zamora · October-15th-2004, 02:05 PM

Jared, are you familiar with Feldman?

sonic1 · October-15th-2004, 02:23 PM

Of Feldman I have
Cello and Orchestra (1972)
Flute and Orchestra (1977-78)
Oboe and Orchestra
Piano and Orchestra

All on a CPO disc

I also have “American String Quartets 1950-1970” by the Concord String Quartet which features his "Structures for String Quartet"

Jared

Brian Olewnick · October-15th-2004, 02:44 PM

It's been said many times before on this board, Jared, but do try to hear Feldman's pieces for small groups and his solo piano work, especially (if possible) as performed by John Tilbury on the 4-disc set, 'All Piano' on London Hall.

No one's mentioned Xenakis yet. 'La Legend d'Eer', baby.

walto · October-15th-2004, 04:14 PM

If I'm not mistaken Gordon B. started a similar thread not too long ago. Probably find a lot of recs there.

Brian Olewnick · October-15th-2004, 04:19 PM

Yep, I think he called it "Other Music" and it's in the Alley.

Enforcer · October-15th-2004, 04:26 PM

Schoenberg. Twelve tones, motherf**kers.

Gary Sisco · October-16th-2004, 08:58 AM

Maneri -- 72 tones, motherfucker.

frankiepop · October-16th-2004, 10:06 AM

i wanted to note that lately i have listened to the california composers:

1. the school oliveros, lamonte young, and terry riley school out of los angelos has commanded a lot of my attention in recent yrs. i suggest they were an influence on coltrane and he on them.

2. cage still would always be huge influence on my listening experience.
i notice how much listening experience has gravitated out of california.

3. i also want to mention crumb who wrote some of my favorites that i listen to today. i think black angels might be one of my favorite pieces and so would be his piano works. i still dig glass, branca, and robert ashley.

. mostly, i want to say that i don't like feldman too much and i havent been persuaded by the unrelenting recommendations of the jc feldman lobby.

sonic1 · October-16th-2004, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walto

If I'm not mistaken Gordon B. started a similar thread not too long ago. Probably find a lot of recs there.

I want more than recs. I want discussion.

I love Crumb's Black Angels . That piece totally changed my conception of what a string quartet can be.

The Oliveros-school stuff I have heard was with Stuart Dempsey (sp?) which was called "deep listening" or something like that. It was recorded in a empty two million gallon water cistern. The result was a piece that with acoustic instruments sounded like synthesized music. If I had heard the music without knowing how it was recorded I would probably have thought, "oh, keyboard music, yawn". But knowing it was done with totally acoustic instrumentation made me listen more and hear the strange overtones, and strange vibrations, it is a totally incredible peice.

Oliveros I think is also in a compilation I have called Music from the Once Festival. But I need to go back and listen, I have not given that a close enough listen yet-at least with Oliveros in mind.

I have mixed feelings on the "minimalist" stuff and related genres. And it makes no logical sense why one minimalist peice I will really like and the other I won't. I tend to lean more in the direction of complexity in music, rather than the more minimalistic and vampish, but I have many examples of things I really like that fall into the aforementioned.

Schostakovich's late string quartets are the epitome of what blows my skirt up. Or composers like Gyorgy Kurtag, or Ligeti. Post 12-tone musicians who scrapped the militant Schoenberg structures but decided that having more tones to work with was cool. Scelci and Nono are more great examples of incredible, simple, but rich music. I wish Nono had more stuff out there.

Stockhausen is very stimulating too, though his recordings hard to obtain-the wait for his stuff to come oversees makes me crazy-for some reason mail from them takes much longer than any other place I order from in Europe, MONTHS LONGER!

Jared

graypencil · October-16th-2004, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic1

Wow. Totally unknown and unfamiliar to me. Want to elaborate?

Fisher ( Mickey ) Tull started out as a very fine jazz trumpet player who then went on into the academic world and more classically based composition until his death a couple years ago. He wrote a fine trumpet concerto that Doc Severinsen performs ( among many other things ) I dont know how much of his wwork has been recorded.

Peter Mennin teaches ( or taught ) composition at Juilliard ( I believe ) and has composed many symphonic works. My personal favorites are his 5th and 9th symphonies ..

Joseph Schwantner teaches comp at Eastman and has several recordings of his work available. One of my favorite works of his is a symphonic poem called "Towards Light "

frankiepop · October-16th-2004, 01:29 PM

Quote:

... a similar thread not too long ago. Probably find a lot of recs there.

sucked! more like a poorly thought out tv advertisement that reiterates ancient jc ideas with a join the club,or f u style.

if u love black angels tho i must tempt u with dominic duvals cecil taylor (ct) string 4tet & the cd entitled 'under the pyramids.' i bet crumb even marvels, how did they pull that off? (u might enjoy this tho speaking of electric/acoustic experiments.)

oliveros' deep listening leaves me with "is that alllll!?" feel 'tosca salad' is ok??? tho i need to listen to that again to be fair about it.

what i love about oliveros is her 80-90s electronic music. i love electronic 'ghostdance' & "Recording Field, H" & the improvisation 'Timeless Pulse' collaberation.

Pete C · October-16th-2004, 04:26 PM

Leo Ornstein, baby.

walto · October-16th-2004, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankiepop

sucked! more like a poorly thought out tv advertisement that reiterates ancient jc ideas with a join the club,or f u style.

Really? I don't remember that. Can you give some examples?

Pete C · October-16th-2004, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walto

Can you give some examples?

Would you be able to parse them?

Squaredancecalling Steve · October-16th-2004, 06:05 PM

Harry Partch

Rob Damen · October-16th-2004, 06:26 PM

Some others not mentioned:

Colon Nancarrow
Kaija Saariaho
Andre Caplet
Deodat de Severac
Roger Sessions
Adam Guettel
Jason Robert Brown
Louis Durey
Howard Swanson
Stephen Sondheim
John Adams
Alois Haba (Thanks Phil)
Tan Dun
Michael John LaChiusa
Ricky Ian Gordon
William Grant Still
Luigi Nono
Jeanine Tesori
Benjamin Britten
Ruth Crawford Seeger

Just off the top of my head ...

Cheers,

Rob

frankiepop · October-16th-2004, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Really? I don't remember that. Can you give some examples?

no, becuz i really have no idea what u were writing about............

steve thelil told me to type that, why dont u go ask him

sonic1 · October-17th-2004, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankiepop

oliveros' deep listening leaves me with "is that alllll!?" feel 'tosca salad' is ok??? tho i need to listen to that again to be fair about it.

As a composition itself it is definately boring. If I had not known how it was made and someone played it for me, it wouldn't have done anything for me. It is how the sound was produced that is interesting. I too wanted a lot more than I got out of that recording. Considering they had that damn cistern to work with one would have thought they could have done some cool shit. But those compositions are yawners. Imagine what a bunch of EAI guys could do down there?

frankiepop · October-17th-2004, 10:19 AM

thy'd probably get electrocuted or drown....u can hear abbey's echo now,

'come on, boyz, boyzboyz boyz boyzboyzboyz get those laptops out outoutou...... time is money moneymoney moneym...'

Deke · October-17th-2004, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

By definition, shouldn't this be in the Alley?

Yup.

Being less pedantic

Lennon/McCartney.

sonic1 · October-17th-2004, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankiepop

thy'd probably get electrocuted or drown....u can hear abbey's echo now,

'come on, boyz, boyzboyz boyz boyzboyzboyz get those laptops out outoutou...... time is money moneymoney moneym...'

it IS an empty cistern not a full one. 2-million gallon capacity.

sonic1 · October-17th-2004, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deke

Yup.

Being less pedantic

Lennon/McCartney.

Watch out Deke, I am trailing you in number of posts!!!!

Richardo Caerleoni · October-17th-2004, 12:15 PM

Even though he was American (just joking - please don't nuke DK!) ...remarkable...

Dave Leibman picked him as his favourite composer on a BBC R3 profile...I think mine too, maybe after Mahler and Bartok...I played Charles Ives at my mother's funeral - seriously (Ist Symph.) She didn't complain...

"The Unanswered Question"... very Miles/Gil Evans. Wonderful.

Thank you America.