cheneys-------> crybabies!

frankiepop · October-17th-2004, 08:32 AM

its weird to be bitchin' about somebody mentioning your daughter is gay after your husband inserted her sexuality into the the campaign. lynn cheney might aim her anger at dick.

it sounds like a lotta
'boohoohoo & woowoowoowoo '
crybaby stuff to me.

by the way, why is the sex orientation thread considered a POLITICS, WORLD ISSUES & WORLD EVENTS???

patricia · October-17th-2004, 10:35 AM

Well, frankipop, I don't know whether I would call them crybabies, but it's common knowledge, thanks to Dick Cheney's mention of their thirty-something, gay activist daughter's sexual orientation, months ago.
If their daughter was not openly gay and perhaps a young teenager, I would have understood their being upset at Mr Kerry's singeling her out. But, even so, he did not do it at a complete, closed statement about her, individually, but as part of his expression regarding gays who are productive and accepting of their gayness. The statement was in response to the question asked by the moderator, to which Mr Bush made a general, rambling, non-committal response, which I guess is more acceptable to more people.
I agree that the Cheneys' over-reaction seems more politically motivated, than sparked by any harm done to their openly gay daughter.
Again, the matter would not have arisen, had the question not been raised by the moderator in the debate. So, if any fault is to be assigned, it should be to him and not to Mr Kerry, who simply mentioned Mary Cheney as an example of a productive, well-adjusted gay person, loved and accepted by her family and friends.

sonic1 · October-17th-2004, 11:50 AM

The gay cheney daughter story is common knowledge as much as it is common knowledge that Saddham was not responsible for 9-11.

Which is to say there are a lot of people who don't pay attention enough to the campaign to have heard. Since a lot of people watching the debates are just getting into the campaign, there is a chance that Kerry let people know who did not know prior. My mother and father in law did not know until the debate.

We have to be careful about what we assume about the american public. Many of us are becoming hyperinformed via the internet (one may question that) and periodicals, books, and real life experiences in politics. A lot of americans work too hard to have time to keep up with all this crap.

frankiepop · October-17th-2004, 12:23 PM

Quote:

I don't know whether I would call them crybabies

ok 'ballbabies'

lynn · October-17th-2004, 12:27 PM

It really seems ironic that here we have the Republican outrage to a sensitive statement about a group of people they would have absolutely no problem denying full citizens rights to.

Squaredancecalling Steve · October-17th-2004, 01:31 PM

Mary Cheney is the $100K/year manager of Dick Cheney's campaign, and is therefore a public figure. As the openly gay talk-show host at KGO said Friday, "Everybody knows she's a great big dyke!"

Kerry's remark was ill-advised -- he'd have made his point with fewer distractions by leaving MaryC out of it. But the Cheneys remarks are sheer politics, although at this point they may be unable to distinguish between personal feelings and political expediency.

frankiepop · October-17th-2004, 02:39 PM

a $100,000 ??? man, nobody milks the system quite like cheney, he is such a dick.

Quote:

"Everybody knows she's a great big dyke!"

sds, having yet another fantasy....

now here u go...

BFrank · October-17th-2004, 07:44 PM

They can dish it out.......but they can't take it.

That's what it comes down to.

RBS · October-17th-2004, 09:09 PM

Bullies are cowards turned inside out.

cookie · October-18th-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squaredancecalling Steve

Kerry's remark was ill-advised -- he'd have made his point with fewer distractions by leaving MaryC out of it. But the Cheneys remarks are sheer politics, although at this point they may be unable to distinguish between personal feelings and political expediency.

That was exactly how I saw it: ill advised. The minute it was out of Kerry's mouth I said, "He shouldn't have said that. It's gonna cause problems for him."

Sure, it's a case of "they can dish it but they can't take it." But I also think that Kerry singling out somebody from the other side was lowhanded and counterproductive. No, he isn't "outing" Mary Cheney but it was still a hamfisted move. Kerry could have talked about gay people without naming names. Does he know any gay people besides Mary Cheney? There was simply no good reason to single her out. It came across as avoiding the question which was "Is homosexuality a choice." Why go through the "I'm sure the Cheney's love their daughter" bit?

I think it was certainly one of Kerry's most graceless moments.

tippy · October-18th-2004, 05:14 PM

I agree, cookie.

On a good note, even though the Cheneys are crybabies, I'm *still* not voting for them.

Enforcer · October-18th-2004, 05:18 PM

Does anyone really believe that Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter wasn't completely scripted? I automatically flashed to a vision of James Carville giving Kerry his final pep talk before the debate, instructing him, "Whatever you do, if gay marriage comes up, make sure to mention 'Dick Cheney's daughter' and 'lesbian' in the same sentence. Got it? OK, now go get 'em, John!"

patricia · October-18th-2004, 05:19 PM

I don't know whether James Carville actually told Kerry to mention Mary if he could, but it's not as if it was a secret, since she came out years ago and is in her thirties, hardly a child. Judging by Lynne Cheney's reaction, you would have thought Mary was a teenager, still in the closet.
I think that mentioning Mary Cheney by name was a mistake, but it's not as if she is a private citizen, whose sexual orientation was suddenly put in the public spotlight. She is very active in matters regarding gay rights and, I think that's good, as, apparently, does John Kerry. The remark was not a slam, but with the intention of using her as an example of someone whose gayness is a big part of how her work is very effective, since it involves working for gay rights. I suppose he should have used a more familiar gay person, such as Barney Franks. John Edwards, in the debate with Dick Cheney made reference to Mary Cheney, in similar circumstances, to no uproar. What changed??

lynn · October-18th-2004, 06:13 PM

The political advantage of pouncing on Kerry for the remark and getting a lot of press as well as getting the conservative base all in a tither. You'd think that group actually supports gay people by the level of their indignation.

patricia · October-18th-2004, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynn

The political advantage of pouncing on Kerry for the remark and getting a lot of press as well as getting the conservative base all in a tither. You'd think that group actually supports gay people by the level of their indignation.

And I would bet good money that you would be wrong.

Sergio Zamora · October-18th-2004, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Nagel

Does anyone really believe that Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter wasn't completely scripted? I automatically flashed to a vision of James Carville giving Kerry his final pep talk before the debate, instructing him, "Whatever you do, if gay marriage comes up, make sure to mention 'Dick Cheney's daughter' and 'lesbian' in the same sentence. Got it? OK, now go get 'em, John!"

I can see it, except in my version he uses the phrase "go get'em, Tiger"

Nefertiti · October-19th-2004, 05:46 AM

I think that because Mary Cheney campaigns for the Republicans, it is perfectly legitimate for Democrats to use her example to show that gays are not the sick perverts as many conservatives portray them and that Republicans are completely hypocrite on the subject of gay rights. If Mary Cheney wasn't involved in partisan politics, it would have been different.

patricia · October-19th-2004, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nefertiti

I think that because Mary Cheney campaigns for the Republicans, it is perfectly legitimate for Democrats to use her example to show that gays are not the sick perverts as many conservatives portray them and that Republicans are completely hypocrite on the subject of gay rights. If Mary Cheney wasn't involved in partisan politics, it would have been different.

Exactly.

BFrank · October-19th-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nefertiti

I think that because Mary Cheney campaigns for the Republicans, it is perfectly legitimate for Democrats to use her example to show that gays are not the sick perverts as many conservatives portray them and that Republicans are completely hypocrite on the subject of gay rights. If Mary Cheney wasn't involved in partisan politics, it would have been different.

You got THAT right!

tippy · October-19th-2004, 01:45 PM

Who cares about this. The Dems are lukewarm about gay rights anyway. It's not like there's something substantive taking place here. Is this the best thing there is to talk about this close to the election--that the Cheneys don't have a right to be angry? Bah. If Dick Cheney was my dad, I'd probably be gay too.

Ron Thorne · October-19th-2004, 01:55 PM

Would you chose a different avatar if you were Dick's daughter and gay, Tippy?

Darryl G. Thomas · October-19th-2004, 02:16 PM

Kerry screwed up. He basically gave the Republicans a distraction they can use because Bush didn't do well in the debates.

tippy · October-19th-2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Thorne

Would you chose a different avatar if you were Dick's daughter and gay, Tippy?

I think this one would still work

and I'd probably still love my dad very much, even if he were Dick Cheney...that's how families are supposed to work, right?

stonemonkts · October-19th-2004, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBS

Bullies are cowards turned inside out.

Reading that while watching your avatar

is cracking me up.

easily amused,
stone

Coda · October-19th-2004, 03:58 PM

And if someone dared say something about Chelsea Clinton when go ol' Slick Willy was prez would you all be chime in saying that it's okay?

No, you wouldn't. You would scream and post some shit from moveon or NYT saying how unfair the public is being to the family.

Jeez, which way is your moral compass pointing today? Typical liberal garbage posted here again.

Chris D · October-19th-2004, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coda

And if someone dared say something about Chelsea Clinton when go ol' Slick Willy was prez would you all be chime in saying that it's okay?

No, you wouldn't. You would scream and post some shit from moveon or NYT saying how unfair the public is being to the family.

Jeez, which way is your moral compass pointing today? Typical liberal garbage posted here again.

Big difference between talking about a political activist, and not negatively, it must be said, and calling a high school girl "a dog." Which they did, by the way.

Coda · October-19th-2004, 04:15 PM

Are you suggesting that she was a gay activist? Where do you get your material?

Or are you suggesting that anyone who works for a political organization gives up their right to privacy on all personal fronts? How does this balance with your hatred for the Patriot Act?

Chris D · October-19th-2004, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coda

Are you suggesting that she was a gay activist? Where do you get your material?

From the Wikipedia (and widely available all around the World Wide Web):

As of 2004, she is director of vice presidential operations for the Bush-Cheney 2004 Presidential re-election campaign. Prior to her involvement with her father's campaign, Cheney was a public relations manager for the Coors Brewing Company and worked as a gay and lesbian outreach coordinator, helping to end a national gay boycott of Coors.

Do you live in a box or what?

Coda · October-19th-2004, 04:24 PM

Working as an outreach coordinator hardly makes her a public figure. Working on her dad's reelection has nothing to do with her sexual orientation.

Yes, I live in a box. Are you going to start a thread on that too?

Chris D · October-19th-2004, 04:28 PM

Her job with Coors was essentially political. She was the company's publicly gay face. I think that's great!