Moving to Canada

[Rob C]

Well, probably not. But I'm tempted after seeing the Canadian band Do Make Say Think last night, and their riff on their country:

They mentioned that their trumpeter can't come to the US. Somebody yelled out, "Why?"

"Because he has a criminal record. He's a jazz musician, you know, and in 1984--1984!--he smoked a joint in Toronto and got arrested. So he can't come to the US. He tries, and every time, they stop him, and they tell him if he tries again, they'll arrest him. He always tries again anyway, and it's the same every time. So you guys will probably never get to see him unless you come to Canada. Which, by the way, you can consider this your invitation. Especially if the next election doesn't work out. We like people like you guys. Come on up! Gay marriage. Weed. No guns."

The crowd went nuts: "Yay!"

The guitarist stepped up to the mike and added: "And if you accidentally shoot yourself while stoned at a gay wedding... we'll pay for your medical care."

Crowd: "YYYAAAAAYYYYY!!!!"

How can you accidently shoot yourself at a gay wedding if there are no guns?

[Rob C]

Originally Posted by Scott Dolan

How can you accidently shoot yourself at a gay wedding if there are no guns?

Just roll with it, will you?

sorry..........

[graypencil]

If they wouldn't let Bob Brookmeyer move there, its a cinch they wont let Dolan in ..

Goddamn Commies..........

[Gary Sisco]

Actually, Bronwyn and I have started at least exploring the idea of expatriating our show, horses and all. Driving back from V-ville this past May, I drove by thousands of acres of prime horse country. Close to Montreal, close to Vermont (family), not in the SS, er, US.

Ireland is a more interesting concept, though -- and horse farms there are tax free (no income tax, no property tax, nada) I found yesterday whilst perusing The Economist. I've always wanted to spend considerable time in the northwest of Ireland. I want a tower, dammit. And a hern. And a bee-loud glade.

[walto]

I have some friends who've wanted to emigrate to Canada for about 5 years. No go. Canada doesn't want people over 40 who'll basically drain their healthcare resources without increasing their tax coffers. Can hardly blame them, but the point is, it's no easy gig to actually migrate north.

[Gary Sisco]

See? I told ya. Ireland's the place.

[Uli]

Originally Posted by walto

I have some friends who've wanted to emigrate to Canada for about 5 years. No go. Canada doesn't want people over 40 who'll basically drain their healthcare resources without increasing their tax coffers. Can hardly blame them, but the point is, it's no easy gig to actually migrate north.

$ 250'000 and a business plan will get you in. At least that was it like 10 years ago.

[walto]

I really don't know the details. My friends are wildly alienated left-liberal types. Both musicians/librarians, who are now pushing 60. They've told me the barriers are insurmountable. I think if they sold their half-house, they'd have $250K, but I don't know about a business plan. They basically want to get the hell out of here and retire someplace else.

[Uli]

Hey, I don't know any details anymore either and I suspect your buddies have looked into it. There was an "investor type" immigration category that had the paramters I mentioned at one time. A good immigration lawyer always can come up with a good business plan. I think they mite be able to just pull them out of their cabinets.

[Gary Sisco]

There's always Costa Rica. Any gringo who can prove he or she has an income (social security will do) can move there. Or so it was in the 80s, anyway. I wasn't looking into it, but I encountered a few in my travels who were doing it at the time.

[Cem]

All things considered, for my needs, Canada is probably one of the best places to live. A dash of Turkey added to the mix brings out a wonderful bouquet. Ideally, I'd like to live in Turkey 2-3 months of the year & the rest in Canada, I think.

Rob, afaik, that trumpeter could apply for a pardon and be done with it. I know many folks in the same predicament & once they get that goofy piece of paper, they're ok.

[walto]

Originally Posted by Uli

Hey, I don't know any details anymore either and I suspect your buddies have looked into it. There was an "investor type" immigration category that had the paramters I mentioned at one time. A good immigration lawyer always can come up with a good business plan. I think they mite be able to just pull them out of their cabinets.

That's a good suggestion: I'll mention it to my friends. Thanks.

[A. Kingstone]

Obviously we have to taking this 'homeland security' thing more seriously.

[Dennis Gonzalez]

I guess I shouldn't mention this in such a public forum (especially with the erosion of free speech in this country), but we're looking for a place for our boys...you know, the draft that's "not going to happen" on Bush's watch because he has so many Americans who support the war who are enlisting in droves...*snort*...

Anyway, I spent a lot of time talking politics and emigration and the sorry shape of this country to my Portuguese friends, and they say that Spain is the place to be since they voted their conservative liars out of office after the Madrid train bombing and pulled their troops out of Iraq.

They are drawing very strong parallels between the fascist Portuguese government of 40 - 50 years ago and ours now. They'd love to vote in this election of ours because they know the calamity that's coming to the world as a whole if...well, you guess the rest...and it has nothing to do with a man named Kerry.

Give Spain a try! We're going to look into it.

[graypencil]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

See? I told ya. Ireland's the place.

Actually ..my late wife and I checked this out prior to moving to the NW ..it IS a pretty good deal ( especially if you're an American of proven Irish descent and work in any of the arts ..wherein they'll let you live there FREE of their income tax ..and yes, unlike Canada they WANT you to work there if you can )

If I were 10/15 years younger, I'd be over there in a New York minute !

[Gary Sisco]

I'm 3/4 Irish "blood," two sides on the maternal line.

The current Economist has an article about how welcoming they are, far's horse farmers go. No taxes. Come on, y'all! They've already radically reduced England's share of the thoroughbred market -- and thoroughbreds are our specialty.

[Dan G]

Originally Posted by Cem

Rob, afaik, that trumpeter could apply for a pardon and be done with it. I know many folks in the same predicament & once they get that goofy piece of paper, they're ok.

It isn't that easy. The pardon only matters in Canada, so when you are applying to be bonded, etc the question is "Have you ever been convicted of a crime for which you haven't been pardoned", which equals out those who have never been convicted and those pardoned.

But, there is still a record on the books that there has been a conviction. Legally, no one in Canada can discriminate based on it, police can't use it, it doesn't count as a first offence if you get caught again, etc. But it is still there, and if US Immigration asks, or taps into the database, they can see it. THey don't know if you were caught with 1/2 a joint, 10 pounds, or of murdering someone. All they get is yes, this person has been convicted of a crime, and that is enough to stop someone at the border.

If you actually get across the border with a Canadian pardon, pretty well any US law authority (from CIA to some crazy redneck sherriff in the ozarks) can arrest you as being there illegally and impound your car, etc.

To get legal access, you have to apply through the US embassy for a waiver; they can then grant it for the trip you specifically applied for, for a set period of time, or for life (revokable at their will, however).

How do I know this? Well, one joint in a parking lot in 1982. Got my parden here in 1990. Turned away at US border in 1991. Applied for waiver late-90s during CLinton administration, got turned down with really no valid reason - a simple "denied" - on a request for a blanket waiver. Maybe I would have succeeded on one for a specific trip, I don't know. I thought I had a good case - was 19 when I got busted, mid 30s when I applied and by that point had gone back to school, got both a BA and a Masters, was working in mid-level administration at one of Canada's biggest universities, and argued that I may have to travel to US for work. No luck.

I may try again if Kerry wins this next election, because I am in a similar, but slightly higher-up job at another univ now, and it may come up that I need to travel again. I won't apply if Bush wins, because he seems to view us as a bnch of pot smoking commies. (on that note, it has been 10 years since I smoked, and would be quite willing for random drug tests)

[frankiepop]

i really think the reason they wouldnt let walto's friends in .....was becuz they were waltos friends.

[Uli]

Originally Posted by Dan G

. Applied for waiver late-90s during CLinton administration, got turned down with really no valid reason - a simple "denied" - on a request for a blanket waiver.

I am sorry to hear that. What could possibly suck more than being a randomly rejected Canadian?

Jokes aside, I think you guys need to be working on the Canadian authorities to ensure that pardoned criminal records can not be revealed to anybody other tham maybe Canadian criminal courts and law enforcement.

[Dan G]

Originally Posted by Uli

I am sorry to hear that. What could possibly suck more than being a randomly rejected Canadian?

Jokes aside, I think you guys need to be working on the Canadian authorities to ensure that pardoned criminal records can not be revealed to anybody other tham maybe Canadian criminal courts and law enforcement.

Or you guys need to work on your government to convince them that marijuana isn't the most evil thing in the world. I've never quite understood how a country that is supposedly for freedom is so opposed to marijuana.

Seems kind of ironic, but I doubt that nearly as many kids die from finding their parent's stash of pot as do from finding their dad's handgun?

[shrugs]

Can I get a shrimp po-boy there?

[Jazzzoline]

Nobody cooks like them in N'oleans.
You can find cajun food in New Brunswick, cuz that's where the French people in New Orleans came from.

[shrugs]

Originally Posted by Jazzzoline

Nobody cooks like them in N'oleans

Buit where does one go when they get there?

All this talk of expatration has me nonplussed. Do people really think it's such great shakes in the rest of the world?

I mean, don't get me wrong, the U.S. is in some pretty sad sack shape, but I think too many Americans buy into this assumption that Europeans and Canadians are somehow "sharper" or more "cultivated."

Take it from your Cousin Ed, folks: it just ain't so. Europeans read the same type of crappy tabloid newspapers, watch the same shitty television shows (just dubbed in their own languages), watch godawful Hollywood pablum, and eat McDonalds for lunch.

I actually have more respect for Americans, because at least we revel in this cultural mediocrity, or at least act pretty shameless about it, whereas Europeans engage in it and then lather themselves in self-hatred for doing so.

The European Union is not more civilized, people. The EU is busily constructing an intervention capable military force in order to build a geopolitical pole to counter U.S. militarism. If that and Franco-German interventions in Macedonia and the Congo are your idea of making the world a safer place, than more power to you.

Not that it matters anyway, since they don't call it "Fortress Europe" for nothing. In other words, the immigration laws in the European Union are constructed to keep your non-European ass out Forget any emigrating unless you are either married to a European citizen or can claim second generation immigrant status (i.e. one of your grandparents was a European citizen. Sorry, great grandparents don't count, and if your grandparents were naturalized U.S. citizens at the time your own parents were born, you're SOL).

Oh, and here's "civilized" europe for you: Italy and Germany are now seriously discussing plans to construct camps on the North African coast for potential Asylum applicants, in order to keep those swarthy hordes seeking refuge from fouling up European soil with their subhuman presence.

Am I the only person who gets nervous when Germans and Italians start using the word "camp?"

[shrugs]

Originally Posted by Ed the Happy Clown

All this talk of expatration has me nonplussed. Do people really think it's such great shakes in the rest of the world?

When I was in Vancouver in June for the jazz fest, we were told to take all valuables out of the car because of the high rate of theft. The explanation was that Vancouver is a big junkie town and they steal everything.
I didn't expect them to have such a huge theft problem.

[Jazzzoline]

Originally Posted by shrugs

Buit where does one go when they get there?

In New Orleans?
Damn, for some reason, i thought you'd know more than i do.
I went once in N.O. for about a week. I can't tell where I ate, I don't remember, but it was delicious everytime (and also very expensive). I also remember even if a dinner cost 400$ CAN for 2 ( which is about 2 1/2 weeks of groceries in our case), we were still hungry.

[tippy]

Standing armies...a good thing?