Thoughts on Evan Parker

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Recently I got a copy of Parker's Electro-Acoustic Ensemble's "Drawn Inward". This is not a review.

I'm just curious about the concept behind this recording. It's from 1999, for all I know Parker may have gone in another direction. Plus, I'm not a fan, just one who is curious because Parker seems to be a favorite of many who post here and who's opinions I respect.

My impressions of the concept behind this band is not positive. On an intellectual level there is some interest. I have an appreciation for the abstract, if not I'd probably would not be a jazz fan. But as I grow older I have a deeper appreciation for the blues, swing, and some discernable (to me) song form. So Parker's concept with this band leaves me cold.

Please, I'd appreciate Parker fan's comments.

[Sergio Zamora]

I don't think a lot of Parker fans or fans of electro-acoustic improv dig this recording too much. I liked it when I first heard it, but I'm not so crazy about it now.

[shrugs]

check out his playing on Schlippenbach's The Moorlocks.
or his tenor duets with Joe McPhee.

[crawjo]

Hmmm. Lately I've had a hard time listening to any electro-acoustic improvisation. During the summer I listened to it quite a bit, but lately I find myself turned off by what I find to be the lack of joy in the music. It all seems so morose, sullen, and cold to my ears lately. For the last couple of months, I've definitely been much more in the mood for hard bop, post bop, and free jazz. And when it comes to the sort of experimentation with various sounds and textures, I've found the early work of Anthony Braxton to be much more satisfying and interesting than the more recent eai stuff that I have heard. To my ears, Braxton's "Three Compositions of New Jazz" and "Silence" bears a familial relationship to a lot of what is going on in the eai field, even if it didn't influence that music directly.

[walto]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

I don't think a lot of Parker fans or fans of electro-acoustic improv dig this recording too much. I liked it when I first heard it, but I'm not so crazy about it now.

You can count me as one of the (apparently few) fans of this recording. I think it's very beautiful.

[Nate Dorward]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

My impressions of the concept behind this band is not positive. On an intellectual level there is some interest. I have an appreciation for the abstract, if not I'd probably would not be a jazz fan. But as I grow older I have a deeper appreciation for the blues, swing, and some discernable (to me) song form. So Parker's concept with this band leaves me cold.

Well I don't think you're likely to find a lot of blues, swing or song form in any of Parker's classic records; but I doubt Drawn Inward is a very good place to start (I haven't heard it but having got the first of the electroacoustic ensemble discs my curiosity was more or less sated). Try something like Imaginary Values or 50th Birthday Concert for a better primer on 1990s Parker. The duo with Anthony Braxton is also nice, much more minimalist than Parker's usual fireworks approach.

crawjo: Parker's EA band has got little or nothing to do with the genre of "electroacoustic improv" beyond the use of the same word.

[Sergio Zamora]

Originally Posted by walto

You can count me as one of the (apparently few) fans of this recording. I think it's very beautiful.

I dug 'Memory/Vision' quite a bit, FWIW

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Thanks for your responses. Nate, I believe I have a copy of the 50th Birthday Concert buried in some boxes in my basement (I've yet to finish moving into my new digs, it's only been like 3 years). To be honest, I don't remember much about it so it may have not made much of an impression at the time.

I'd like to refer to crawjo's post because I feel that's the direction I'm moving into myself. So much of today's music seems to be losing its humanity (that's the feeling I got from this disc). Is this band's concept just a Parker "thing" or is it a direction that European improv is heading to? Not so much the melding of the electronic with the acoustic (which isn't new at all), but the total rejection of blues and swing?

I can't speak for everyone, but how many times have you heard an "avant garde" piece of music and a slice of the blues or swing is thrown in and your ears perk up? I've been having a lot of those moments over the last coouple of years.

[Sergio Zamora]

Darryl, in the eai thread you'll see there is a significant section of the free improv community (mostly in Europe and Japan) that is working in an idiom (or meta-language) that is completely disassociated from jazz. I can understand why it might seem cold an un-human, and I can't really explain why I don't see it that way. Some of it, in fact, sounds quite warm to my ears. In any case, as Nate has pointed out, the EP EAE isn't really working in the same language as the aforementioned community, but they share some common elements.

[hearsay]

I personally don't care about blues and swing as a prerequisite, although there is plenty of music I love that has those qualities, I genrally don't have a "litmus test" for what I will and won't like. However, I agree that a lot of the improv/experimental music I hear lacks a certain kick. One of my main complaints is lack of melody, one of my favorite things about music is a beautiful or fascinating melody, and it doesn't have to be anything obvious or grandiose. That's something that can make almost anything good to me. I realize that not everybody shares this preference though, and I try to listen to music for what it is about rather than what it is not, I can still be interested in the other qualities of it.

[crawjo]

Originally Posted by Nate Dorward

crawjo: Parker's EA band has got little or nothing to do with the genre of "electroacoustic improv" beyond the use of the same word.

I wouldn't say that Parker's music has "nothing" to do with EAI. I think it has something to do with it, but I agree it's not the same thing as EAI. I was thinking specifically of the Erstwhile stuff, which I listened to a great deal during the summer but have a harder time getting into now. It may just be a phase that I'm passing through...I think we all have phases where our ears are more tuned into one style or approach versus another. There is much that I have found to enjoy in EAI in the past, but I recently went on a driving trip and brought along a whole bunch of Erst records. I think I listened to Weather Sky, Schnee, eh, do, and Forlorn Green, and damn if those records didn't put me in such a gloomy, pessimistic mood. That night I popped in the Art Ensemble's "Bap-Tizum" and of course, the difference between the two was night and day. As I've been listening to more of that type of music in recent weeks, particularly the AEC, Braxton, and Wadada Leo Smith, I got to wondering if "EAI" music suffers from what I'll call, for lack of a better term, a limited emotional vocabulary. It's not that I expect music to express joy or celebration all the time, it's just that EAI music lately, to my ears, seems particularly constrained into repeating certain pessimistic qualities: sadness, resignation, defeat. I'm not saying that this is the way EAI music is, but this is what I have been feeling for the past two months whenever I listen to it.

As for Evan Parker's work, the only disc with the ea band that I own is "Toward the Margins" which I found to be incredibly boring; one of the least interesting albums I have bought all year. That discouraged me from getting anything else.

[walto]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

I dug 'Memory/Vision' quite a bit, FWIW

I actually like "Toward the Margins" quite a bit more than "Drawn Inward"--but I like 'em both.

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Originally Posted by walto

I actually like "Toward the Margins" quite a bit more than "Drawn Inward"--but I like 'em both.

That's my take, too.

[frankiepop]

i think at the time of the release the intention was to hone in on kenny g's market. walto bought a copy. thus, you must conclude it worked!

[SilentKnowledge]

I am a pretty big fan of Evan Parker but I do not enjoy his Electro-Acoustic works. They are indeed insipid & seems uninspired.

My favorite solo albums of his are: Monceros & Chicago Solo

Favorite duo recordings: The Grass Is Greener with Han Bennink, The London COnert With Derek Bailey, Birds & Blades with Barry Guy, & Suspentions & Antisipations with Stan Tracy

I am really interested in hearing a few Parker/Lytton duo recordings, what albums would you members recommend to me?

Favorite ensemble recording(trio or larger): Topography of the Lungs with Derek Bailey & Han Bennink, At The Vortex with Barry Guy & Paul Lytton, Foxes Fox with Steve Beresford, John Edwards & Louis Moholo, Pakisanti Pomade with the Alexander Von Schlippenbach trio & Summer 1967 with the Spotaneous Music Ensemble.

There are large gaps that are neccesarry for me to complete, but those are the ones that I have enjoyed in a well manner.

Regards,

Alexander

[Gary Sisco]

Me, too.

Darryl -- The best Evan Parker by far that I've heard is *At The Vortex.* Pick that one up and you'll see why so many people here like him. Especially the first set. The second's great, too, but the first is sublime. You'll dig it.

[SilentKnowledge]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Pick that one up and you'll see why so many people here like him. Especially the first set. The second's great, too, but the first is sublime. You'll dig it.

I concur.

[Jesse]

I am really digging Parker's collaboration with violinist Wachsmann & bassist Hauta-Aho, The Needles. Two discs; a live set at a European festival, a studio set that followed. The blend of strings and Parker's sculpted sax slabs is immediate, tightly knit, organically developed & the interplay is intuitive (live & in the studio).
I have Parker dating back to the late 60's. He is a saxophone player I actually seldom reach for. I find his sound is hard to listen to for extended periods-felt that way since I first heard him. His technique is amazing, even overpowering, and singular. I have to hear him in the right (for my ears) context to dig anything other than his technical virtuosity (I happen to not be smitten, first & last, by virtuosity).
Plus (heresy probably to his avid & acquisitive true believers), I simply wish he'd take the horn out of his mouth occassionally (which he does on The Needles).
Fwiw, I recommend Pakistani Pomade as well. And his being a voice in the ensemble contributions to the Globe Unity Orchestra, especially Compositions & Improvisations, both on JAPO.

[mke]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

I can't speak for everyone, but how many times have you heard an "avant garde" piece of music and a slice of the blues or swing is thrown in and your ears perk up? I've been having a lot of those moments over the last coouple of years.

Isn't that just a matter of contrast, though? I get the same thing listening to hard bop when, all of a sudden, something unusual or out of character occurs.

[walto]

FWIW, "Needles," "At the Vortex" and "Into the Margins" (along with "Nailed" and "Alder Brooks") are my favorite Parker recordings, so there's no mutual exclusivity there, I don't think.

I don't know about the Kenny G. analogy. I don't like "smooth jazz," but Maybe f-en-pop is right. Can't worry about being common or vulgar though. (I think I'll clip my toenails on national TV just to prove it.)

[Darryl G. Thomas]

mke,

You may be correct. Or, in my case, it may be the the appearance of the familiar. However, I don't get the same reaction when I'm listening to a "mainstream" recording and all of a sudden "avant-gardism" breaks out.

[stonemonkts]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

However, I don't get the same reaction when I'm listening to a "mainstream" recording and all of a sudden "avant-gardism" breaks out.

How about when Don Pullen would take a flight out during a solo when he played with Mingus? I mention this because I think it is an obvious example of when it happens.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

Stonemonkts,

I love Pullen, he's one of my favorites. But I have to say no. Mainly it's because so much of avant garde playing appeals to my intellect. The blues and swing have a bigger appeal to my soul

[Steve Reynolds]

also try Louis Moholo's Bush Fire - some great burnin' Parker there

another one rarely mentioned is The Ayes Have it - a 1983 and a 1991 session - juts fantastic playing from all - Jamie Muir on the 1983 session and Wolter Wierbos on the later date - plus Paul Rogers on both and Mark Sanders ROARING on the 1991 session with the two horns playing like the house is on fire!!!!

and never forget The Two Seasons with Edwards & Sanders

on a par with At The Vortex - due to the great drumming of the one and only Mark Sanders - the high points take this record to every level imaginable

fwiw- I dislike both Drawn Inward and Towards the Margins - can't hear the trio - and I can't get past that - I'd much rather hear a great erstwhile recording

I do like the 3 CD strings set quite a bit - although originally I hated it

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

It hasn't been mentioned yet (perhaps because not that many others like it) but one of my very favorites by EP is 'Dark Rags' with Keith Rowe.

[walto]

Steve, I like "Strings" too.

SqD, I thought I was the only one who didn't care for "Dark Rags"!

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Originally Posted by walto

SqD, I thought I was the only one who didn't care for "Dark Rags"!

And I thought I was one of the very few who liked it. (Perhaps you are the only one who didn't like it, but you cast a large shadow.)

[Dan G]

I liked Dark Rags on first listen, but it didn't do much for me on subsequent spins. Probably haven't had it off the shelf since about 3 or 4 weeks after it was released.

Regarding Parker that can appeal to both the soul and the intellect (if there really is a duality there...) try one of the other AMM-member duos. Two Chapters and an Epilogue with John Tilbury is a warm sensitive recording that just feels good to listen to. Most Materiall with Eddie Prevost, is also one that you can really feel, rather than just think about, though not in the bluesy/swinging way that is being duscussed here (hmmm, sounds kind of silly when put into print, but hopefully meaning is understood).

And while on topic of Prevost, did I miss a discussion of the newer Parker/Prevost disc? Who's heard it, and what are the impressions?

Anyway, as to Parker, I sometimes find he makes more sense and is easier to understand and appreciate in small doses, such as his solos in large ensembles (LJCO, GUO, etc) where there is a larger context to put him in. Or in smaller bands where he isn't the primary focus and there in the forefront for the full performance (i.e. Kenny Wheeler's Around 6)

[Squaredancecalling Steve]

Does anybody else like EP's duo and trio (+Lytton) albums with Braxton (London)? Those are also two of my favorites. (I know SteveReynolds and frankiepop dislike those two albums, which is about as solid a recommendation as one could hope for! )

[stonemonkts]

I do, but isn't the trio in question Parker-Braxton-Rutherford? I usually listen to the Duo/Trio albums consecutively.