Other tunes like Pent Up House, Tune Up and Ladybird?

[petros]

Pent Up House, Tune Up and Ladybird all have easy 16 bar forms, smooth
| ii | V | I | I | cycles, and catchy melodies.

Can you think of any other 16 bar tunes with | ii | V | I | I | and
| ii | V | cycles?
I can't.
I think "Pent Up House", "Tune Up" and "Ladybird" are unique in form and progression.

[graypencil]

Almost the entire Horace Silver catalog:

Doodlin'
Filthy McNasty
Sister Sadie
Song for my Father
Room 608
Quicksilver


and many more ....

[Pete C]

Is there a common form to the 3 tunes in the first post? I'm pretty sure they're not 32-bar AABA forms or blues.


Where does "Out of Nowhere" and its variants fit in?

Half Nelson shares changes with Ladybird.

[petros]

"Pent Up House", "Tune Up" and "Ladybird" are all 16 bar tunes. I think they are unique in the fact that they are only 16 bars, have catchy melodies and utilize clear cut forward moving progressions of | ii | V | I | I | and | ii | V | cycles. None of the other tunes mentioned so far are very similar to "Pent Up House" and "Tune Up", they are either a different form or do not forward cycle the basic | ii | V | I | I |. The predominant pacing being one bar on the II chords, one bar on the V chords, and two bars on the I chords.
THEREFORE, one can use the same type of lines and phrasing when soloing over these short tunes.

"Blue Bossa" is a 16 Bar tune that is somewhat similar, but is a mostly in a minor key with a different pacing approach and only gets a major
| ii | V | I | I | after 8 bars.

Perhaps "Bluesette" is the somewhat similar if played in 4/4, however it is 24 bars in length and therefore somewhat more involved. Leafing thru my fakebooks I am struck by how few tunes are as economical and clever as "Pent Up House", "Tune Up" and "Lady Bird".

Oddly, I can't think of any Horace Silver Tune that is 16 bars and cycles
| ii | V | I | I | progressions like Pent Up House and Tune Up do.

[Vibeman]

Originally Posted by petros

"Pent Up House", "Tune Up" and "Ladybird" are all 16 bar tunes. I think they are unique in the fact that they are only 16 bars, have catchy melodies and utilize clear cut forward moving progressions of | ii | V | I | I | and | ii | V | cycles...

Oddly, I can't think of any Horace Silver Tune that is 16 bars and cycles
| ii | V | I | I | progressions like Pent Up House and Tune Up do.

If everyone had been READING your question they never would have mentioned all those other tunes which ARE NOT 16 bar tunes. You posed a very good question and I would like to see another answer. Whoever it was that mentioned Half Nelson was right on it.


Pay attention folks!!

Now, don't attack me, just read the question.

[Pete C]

I mentioned Half Nelson. On a related note, Coltrane's Countdown is the same changes as Tune Up.

[gnhrtg]

Pete - "loosely based on," as Mark Sabatella puts it rather than "is the same changes" is more appropriate on Tune Up/Countdown.

[petros]

I guess we can conclude that Pent Up House, Tune Up and Ladybird are the only 16 bar jazz standards with straight ahead | ii | V | I | I | changes.

[Bluebrew]

"Pentup House" is based on the changes to a standard as I recall. Does anyone know which tune?

[Vibeman]

Originally Posted by Bluebrew

"Pentup House" is based on the changes to a standard as I recall. Does anyone know which tune?

No we don't, won't you please enlighten us.

[Bluebrew]

I'm asking.

[petros]

There are a number of standards that mimic Pent Up House for the first 8 bars. However they are all longer in form than Pent Up House's 16 bar form and none take the harmonic change that Pent Up House does in bar 9.

I Love You, Fools Rush In, I Wish You Love, It's You or Know One, Tea For Two, Baubles Beads and Bangles, Tangerine What A Difference A Day Makes are similar the first 8 bars. Even Perdido is similar the first 8 bars.

[petros]

I know the tunes!
I am searching for other 16 bar major key tunes with similar paced changes. I don't think anybody here knows of any.

[Pete C]

Giant Steps:

When the great tenor saxophonist recorded the brisk 16-bar tune in 1959, he demonstrated a wholly new way of looking at chord progressions, utilizing the basic II-V-I cadences in an imaginative, unpredictable manner that opened up harmonic vistas for countless musicians.

http://www.doubletimerecords.com/scripts/dtr120.asp

[petros]

I know Giant Steps and don't especialy enjoy playing it. It is far less player friendly and bears little resemblence in harmonic progression to "Pent Up House" and "Tune Up" chord changes. The Giant Steps ii V I cycles pace by twice as fast and leap abruptly a tritone away. Bars 1-2 and 5-6 are very jumpy. Giant Steps has become somewhat of an Olympic test in music schools.

[J Lee]

I think, rather than no one here particularly knowing any more examples, there simply may not be (m)any other jazz standards using the 16-bars with all of the constraints you demand, petros.

Certainly it's true that many, many players simply don't care about playing "Giant Steps" -- I loathe the idea that a great tune has become an irrelevant barometer for EVERYONE, as the pedantic approach might have it.

But I don't understand your term "jumpy" for mm. 1-2 and 5-6 of GS, p. Even though I'm *never* going to master the tune (unless I have to, for a gig or to fit in with the crowd or whatever), I can't hear anything wrong with what Trane plays on it or a priori with the changes. Is there a theoretical explanation of the jumpiness?

If someone can figure out how to post standard notation here -- or convince the powers that be to add what should be an important tool for any jazz board, and yet, is totally unexploited as of now anywhere, AFAIK -- you could write your own and post it (but then again, so could I, or anyone else -- good idea for a collaboration).

I delegate my responsibility, as instigator, for writing the first 4 bars of melody to Phil...em, because it would sound better that way! Let's hear it!

[petros]

"Minority" and "Groovin High" are 16 bar tunes and moist of the chords pace by at the rate of every four beats.