Old November-23rd-2004, 11:32 AM   #1
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Freedom in Ukraine

Go Ukraine!


Ukraine Protesters March on Parliament
By Yuri Kulikov

KIEV (Reuters) - Up to 200,000 protesters rallied outside an emergency session of Ukraine's parliament on Tuesday demanding authorities admit they cheated in a presidential poll which showed the country's Moscow-backed prime minister had won.

Parliamentary deputies held the session in response to calls from supporters of West-leaning challenger Viktor Yushchenko, who says he was robbed of victory in Sunday's second-round run-off by backers of Prime minister Viktor Yanukovich.

But with the absence of Yanukovich's allies, the session did not muster enough deputies to empower the chamber to make any decision binding on the authorities.

Deputies could still issue a request to the country's leaders expressing concern over the turmoil sparked by the contested poll, though parliament cannot overturn results that award victory to Yanukovich.

"We are sliding toward the abyss. It is amoral and criminal to pretend nothing is happening in the country," parliamentary speaker Volodymyr Lytvyn told deputies at the debate's start.

"We must act in good time otherwise the people will decide on our behalf tomorrow."

Pro-Yushchenko protesters marched in two columns toward the parliament building, their lines snaking up to three km (two miles) from the city center.

"Our joint action will lead to political success. We are therefore now forming lines and moving toward parliament," Yushchenko told demonstrators gathered in a Kiev square.

The demonstrators had turned out for a second day of raucous protest after preliminary results showed he lost Sunday's poll.

The center of the capital seethed with anger and defiance as speakers stepped up to the microphone in Independence Square to pledge loyalty to Yushchenko.

"We are fighting for democracy and we will win," declared Ihor Ostash, an opposition parliamentary deputy, draped like others in the orange campaign colors of Yushchenko's camp.

U.S. and Western observers say the second round run-off presidential vote fell far short of international standards.

Washington warned of punitive measures if the Kiev leadership failed to investigate allegations of vote rigging and the European Union described the vote as "fraudulent."

In Brussels, the European parliament's chief observer said Sunday's run-off defied common sense and had more in common with a North Korean election.

In the nationalist heartland of western Ukraine, some 100,000 protesters marched through the city of Lviv to back Yushchenko. Several thousand protesters massed in other western towns, including Lutsk and Khmelnitsky.

Nearly two dozen Ukrainian diplomats signed a statement protesting the election "being turned into a shameful war against our own people."

SECURITY FORCES' WARNING

With passions high against the background of a warning on Monday from security forces that they would crush unrest "quickly and firmly," the political split could turn violent.

Outgoing President Leonid Kuchma, who has long backed Yanukovich as his successor, has said nothing since the vote.

Yanukovich, who has been congratulated by his most powerful backer, Russian President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites), has not declared victory but virtually assumed the mantle of president on Monday, by appearing on television beside the national flag to denounce Yushchenko and his supporters.

Undeterred by the threat of a crackdown, many speakers on Independence Square urged students to seize control of universities that have been largely abandoned for several days.

Stretching about 100 meters (yards) down Kiev's main Khreshchatyk thoroughfare were ranks of tents where at least 1,500 Yushchenko supporters camped out overnight in biting cold.

Busloads of special forces guarded the election commission headquarters as Yushchenko supporters drove past earlier, tooting horns in derision.

"We are against the cynicism of the authorities. We are against a police state," said protester Yuri Kovalchuk, a 36-year-old former military officer said.

Banners in the sea of protesters included the Georgian red and white flag -- a reminder that November 23 was the first anniversary of Georgia's mass "rose revolution" that toppled veteran leader Eduard Shevardnadze and elected a pro-Westerner.

But it was uncertain if Ukraine's liberals could force similar changes.

Protesters, breaking off from sipping soup from vacuum flasks, burst into sporadic chants of "Yushchenko, Yushchenko."

The election gave Ukrainians a stark choice. Yanukovich sees closer ties with Russia as the key to prosperity, while his rival calls for gradual integration with the West.

It also underlined the divide between the nationalist west and the industrial Russian-speaking east that backed Yanukovich.

"I think about what will happen with Ukraine in the next 10 years," said Yulia, a student. "If a president appointed by the authorities will stay, I will be afraid to go in the streets."

(Additional reporting by Olena Horodetska in Kiev, Lyuba Sorokina in Lviv)
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Old November-23rd-2004, 12:33 PM   #2
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Yeah, I hope they're able to straighten things out there. Meanwhile, American corruption has bought its slice of the pie:
Funding Of Election Monitors A Concern
Quote:
Saturday, November 20, 2004; Page A01
After the first round of Ukraine's presidential election a few weeks ago, a group of Democratic former congressmen observing the vote declared that it was basically free and fair and "geared toward the finest methods of ensuring fairness and accuracy."

Their positive assessment ran counter to those of most other observers, including the State Department, a group affiliated with the Republican Party and a coalition of European monitors, who all cited widespread irregularities and called it "a step backwards."

What the congressional group did not say was that its members were recruited and paid $500 a day by a Washington-based lobbyist who is a registered representative of the pro-Russian candidate in the race, Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych.
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Old November-23rd-2004, 02:47 PM   #3
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Say what!? A candidate got less votes than his opponent but was awarded the office anyway?

How the hell can that happen?
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Old November-23rd-2004, 08:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas
Say what!? A candidate got less votes than his opponent but was awarded the office anyway?

How the hell can that happen?
And apparently this opposition candidate has balls. None too pretty, though. Yeesh! A face only a mass of demonstrators and Western observers could love:



Ukraine in crisis as opposition leader declares himself president
AFP


AFP Photo

Tens of thousands of opposition supporters surrounded Ukraine's presidential offices after their pro-Western leader declared himself president, defying the government after a weekend election they believe was rigged in favour of the Russia-backed candidate.

With the political crisis threatening to spiral out of control, hundreds of riot police cordoned off the building in the capital Kiev, pushing back demonstrators who shouted slogans and called on security personnel to join the protest, as the government met in emergency session.

Opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko had earlier declared himself president during an emergency parliament session attended only by his supporters and which lacked a quorom.

Outgoing President Leonid Kuchma warned that the act could have unforeseeable consequences but he promised his government would not be the first to use force against the uprising, sparked by accusations of irregularities during the weekend presidential vote.

As criticism of the poll gathered momentum in the West, two members of Ukraine's central electoral commission were reported to have urged their 13 colleagues not to approve the results because of major ballot violations.

Yushchenko called on Ukrainian civil servants and police to cross over and join the mass protests that have gripped the nation since the vote.

"Ukraine needs you, come over to our side," he urged, as protesters camped defiantly outside the assembly, many waving the signature opposition color of orange, before heeding a call to march on the president's office building.

Amid opposition fears that "government provocateurs" would mix in with the crowd and spark violence with police, Kuchma promised that the security forces would not launch an unprovoked crackdown, as he denounced Yushchenko's behaviour as a dangerous political farce.

"The authorities will never be the instigators of the use of force," he said in a national address.

But he warned: "The political farce acted out today by (Yushchenko's) Our Ukraine coalition, which has declared a so-called popular president... is extremely dangerous and can lead to unforeseeable consequences."

The election in Ukraine, pitting Yushchenko against pro-Moscow Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich in a run-off round, has been seen by some observers as the most important in eastern Europe since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union.

A victory for Yushchenko would pull the strategically important eastern European nation of 48 million people out of Russia's age-old embrace and eventually put it into the fold of the European Union and maybe even NATO, shifting liberal Europe's center of gravity closer to Russia's borders.

The dispute has split this former Soviet republic down the middle, with the Ukrainian-speaking West mainly behind Yushchenko and the Russian-speaking east backing Yanukovich.

Yushchenko has called on "parliaments and people of the world" to recognize him as the real winner of the vote, which Western governments and observers have decried as massively flawed.

"In the 20th century, we are facing a threat to the will of a people of one of Europe's largest countries," he said in a statement.

Official ballot counts so far show 54-year-old Yanukovich won 49.39 percent of the vote compared with Yushchenko's 46.71 percent, with 99.48 percent of polling stations reporting. Most independent exit polls handed victory to Yushchenko, but some of those commissioned by Yanukovich's team showed the prime minister as the winner.

Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin called for a peaceful resolution to the crisis, but dismissed European criticism of the vote.

"We can't recognize or protest because no official results have yet been announced," he said during a visit to Lisbon. "I can advise others to follow our example."

Putin, who openly supported Yanukovich in the election campaign, contacted the pro-Russian leader Monday to congratulate him on his "open and honest" victory.

In Washington, the White House said it was "deeply disturbed" by the fraud accusations.

Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, whose nation holds the rotating EU presidency, told Kuchma that Brussels had "doubts" about the result of the vote, while British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said it was "very difficult to argue that this was a free and fair election."

Ukraine now threatens to add to the strains already evident between Russia and the EU heading into a bilateral summit Thursday in The Hague between Putin and Balkenende.

Earlier in parliament, Yushchenko, a former premier, warned that Ukraine "is on the verge of civil conflict," as the western region of Lviv joined Kiev and five other opposition bastions in rejecting official results giving victory to Yanukovich.

Parliamentary speaker Vladimir Litvin refused to recognise the oath of office, and the assembly session was attended by too few legislators to make a resolution binding.

"There has been no inauguration," he said. "One must not provoke people."

In a further sign of the deep national split, the regional government of Donetsk, an eastern pro-Moscow fiefdom, denounced the protests in Kiev and the Ukrainian-speaking western districts.

And 150 Ukrainian diplomats, including the official foreign ministry spokesman issued a statement recognising Yushchenko as president.

The central electoral commission has until December 6 to announce the final vote count and declare a winner, but doubt shrouded the result late Tuesday after two members of the 15-member commission urged their colleagues not to validate it because of irregularities, Interfax news agency reported.
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Old November-24th-2004, 08:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vince Kargatis
Yeah, I hope they're able to straighten things out there. Meanwhile, American corruption has bought its slice of the pie:
Funding Of Election Monitors A Concern
You mean the former Democratic Congressmen who were paid by the lobbyest representing the candidate who probably stole the election.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Economist


Senator Richard Lugar, a Republican sent by President George Bush to monitor voting, accused the Ukrainian government of supporting a “concerted and forceful programme of election-day fraud and abuse”.
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Old November-24th-2004, 09:23 AM   #6
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Supposedly the guy's disfigurement was the result of a poisoning attempt.
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Old November-24th-2004, 09:55 AM   #7
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Moscow Times Editorial
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Old November-24th-2004, 10:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas
Supposedly the guy's disfigurement was the result of a poisoning attempt.
Now that I did not know. Sheesh.
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Old November-24th-2004, 11:40 AM   #9
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It's an accusation made by his camp. As far as I know there has been no verification. Maybe it was the same cats who poisoned Arafat.
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Old November-24th-2004, 02:12 PM   #10
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Wow, this is freaky:

Yushchenko's acne points to dioxin poisoning
Federica Castellani
News@Nature.com


Viktor Yushchenko, Ukraine's opposition leader, in Kiev on 19 November. A British toxicologist says his skin condition is characterisitic of dioxin poisoning.
© AP Photo/Alexander Zemlianichenko

As disputed presidential election results provoke protests in Kiev, a British toxicologist is supporting candidate Viktor Yushchenko's claim that he was poisoned earlier in the campaign.

Yushchenko, the leader of the opposition, was hospitalized with a mystery illness in September and later claimed that he had been poisoned by the government. However, the Austrian doctors who treated him denied having found any evidence of this.

John Henry, a clinical toxicologist at St Mary's Hospital, London, and a consultant for Britain's National Poisons Information Service, points out that current photos of Yushchenko's face show a dramatic transformation compared with a few months ago.

He says that Yushchenko's disfiguring acne is almost certainly 'chloracne', a characteristic symptom of dioxin poisoning.

Dioxins are a group of chlorinated organic molecules. They are long-lived and form as a by-product of many industrial processes, such as waste incineration.


Yushchenko looks fit and healthy on 2 August 2004, before his mystery illness.
© AP Photo/Anatoly Medzyk

Exposure to dioxins is known to increase the risk of cancer and can cause severe reproductive and developmental problems.

The most toxic dioxin is a compound called 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin, or TCDD. In 1976, an industrial explosion in Seveso, Italy, released 20 kilograms of dioxins into the atmosphere, causing the highest known exposure of any population to TCDD.

Skin lesions similar to burns appeared on some children a few hours after the accident. Two months later, chloracne broke out on the people most exposed to the cloud.

Snap judgement

Marcello Lotti, an expert in occupational medicine at the University of Padua, Italy, questions the validity of Henry's conclusion. He argues that it is impossible to make such a diagnosis simply by looking at a photo.

Lotti adds that he would be surprised if anyone were to select dioxin as a poison. "Dioxins have only modest toxicity and you would need an extremely high dose to get chloracne," he says. "Only kilos of contaminated food, administered over several days, would give you chloracne."

Henry admits that he does not have any toxicological evidence to back up his claim. "My diagnosis is from the photo and from the medical report of him being normal two months earlier," he says.

"Very few medical conditions give this type of transformation in such a short time," he points out.

Henry also argues that it would be possible to produce the effect seen in Yushchenko's face from a single high dose of dioxin hidden in food.
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Old November-24th-2004, 03:51 PM   #11
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Damn, he USED to be a good looking dude.

Monte, what do you think about Putin's role in all of this (plus his wanting to return to the good old days of the USSR)?

I hate to beat a dead political horse (now that I've been GOPPED), but didn't Bush look deep into his soul or something and dug what he saw?
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Old November-24th-2004, 04:06 PM   #12
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Belmont Club has interesting things to say.

American, European and Canadian diplomats all expressed concern at the Kremlin's actions, creating remarkable psychological solidarity which is in stark contrast towards the wrangling over Iraq. The Guardian intoned (The Guardian!)

International reactions to the presidential elections in Ukraine have been remarkably uniform. From the US, through the European parliament, to Nato, the view is that serious irregularities and worse marred Sunday's second-round run-off. Expressions of concern and dismay might have little practical effect if it were not for the fact that the opposition candidate, Viktor Yushchenko, yesterday claimed victory over the official winner, Viktor Yanukovich, raising the stakes both at home and abroad. Demonstrators massing dramatically in freezing temperatures in Kiev have invoked the example of Georgia last year, when the "rose revolution" overthrew Eduard Shevardnadze in favour of a pro-westerner.

Both Yanukovich and Yushchenko are negotiating to avoid an open breach. Although the Kremlin has deployed some Special Forces units to the Ukraine, it seems highly unlikely that Russia would risk an all out military campaign to bring the Ukraine within the fold. Although there are no explicit NATO security guarantees to the Ukraine, there have been many half-promises and partial arguments. The NATO website summarizes the situation thus:

NATO-Ukraine relations were formally launched in 1991, when Ukraine joined the North Atlantic Cooperation Council (later renamed the Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council), immediately upon achieving independence with the break-up of the Soviet Union. A few years later, in 1994, Ukraine became the first of the Commonwealth of Independent States to join the Partnership for Peace – a major programme of practical security and defence cooperation between NATO and individual Partner countries. ...

Relations between the Allies and Ukraine hit a low point in 2002, when the Alliance expressed grave concerns about reports of the authorisation at the highest level of the transfer of air-defence equipment from Ukraine to Iraq. Yet NATO remained engaged in its cooperation with Ukraine, demonstrating the strength of the Allies' commitment to develop strong NATO-Ukraine relations and to encourage Ukraine to work towards closer Euro-Atlantic integration. In May 2002, just before the fifth anniversary of the Distinctive Partnership, President Leonid Kuchma boldly announced Ukraine’s goal of eventual NATO membership. In response, at a meeting in Reykjavik later that month, NATO Foreign Ministers agreed with their Ukrainian counterpart to explore ways to take the NATO-Ukraine relationship to a qualitatively new level. This paved the way for the adoption of the NATO-Ukraine Action Plan by Ukrainian and Allied foreign ministers at their meeting in Prague in November 2002.

The tug-of-war between Russia and NATO now in evidence was discernible even then. In this crisis, the counterweight of NATO is effectively the power of the United States, which has slowly been positioning itself not only on the western marches of the former Soviet Union but also in Central Asia. A list of US allies in Iraq illustrates this dramatically. These include the Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Mongolia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Albania, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Moldova and Armenia; almost as if the entire former Warsaw Pact had come under CENTCOM control. If that were not enough, the United States has acquired a network of military bases at Khanabad in Uzbekistan, and at Manas in Kyrgyzstan.
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Old November-24th-2004, 04:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas
Damn, he USED to be a good looking dude.

Monte, what do you think about Putin's role in all of this (plus his wanting to return to the good old days of the USSR)?

I hate to beat a dead political horse (now that I've been GOPPED), but didn't Bush look deep into his soul or something and dug what he saw?
Darryl: just about all the recent moves by Putin have been disturbing. I think he's trying to take Russia (and, unforgiveably, Ukraine) back to the kind of state he and plenty of others are comfortable with. You know, that no muss, no fuss non-representative security state.

That was a stupid thing Bush said about Vladsy's soul. Just stupid.

Last edited by Monte Smith; November-24th-2004 at 04:48 PM.
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Old November-24th-2004, 05:27 PM   #14
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Schnikey! They went ahead and certified the government candidate.

Powell Says U.S. Will Not Accept Final Tally in Ukraine
By BRIAN KNOWLTON,
International Herald Tribune

WASHINGTON, Nov. 24 - With international pressure mounting on Ukraine, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said today that the United States could not accept its recent election results. He urged President Leonid Kuchma not to use force against the sprawling crowds in Kiev streets protesting the official outcome.

Defying American and European calls not to certify the election, Ukraine declared today that Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich was the winner of elections that several foreign monitoring groups and a White House special envoy have called seriously flawed.

"We cannot accept this result as legitimate because it does not meet international standards," Mr. Powell said, "and because there has not been an investigation of the numerous and credible reports of fraud and abuse."

The United States, he added, was "deeply disturbed" by these reports.

The secretary of state, in a forceful statement backed by similar declarations from European and Canadian officials, urged a full review of the election, which several international monitoring groups and a White House special envoy have declared seriously flawed.

"This is a critical moment," he said at the State Department. "If the Ukrainian government does not act immediately and responsibly, there will be consequences for our relationship, for Ukraine's hopes for Euro-Atlantic integration, and for individuals responsible for perpetrating fraud."

He did not spell out those consequences, though possibilities include a ban on travel visas for Ukrainian officials, and curbs on annual foreign aid totaling $150 million. Nor would Mr. Powell propose a solution, noting that one suggestion was another election but that other suggestions were out there.

European officials also spoke of consequences, possibly in lost economic aid or downgraded diplomatic ties, if Ukraine fails to review the elections.

Mr. Powell, following an apparently intense round of telephone consultations with officials from Brussels to Moscow, said he had spoken to Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov of Russia and agreed on the need for a solution that is based on the law and on diplomacy.

After a phone conversation between President Vladimir Putin and Chancellor Gerhard Schröeder of Germany, the Kremlin issued a similar statement for a law-based solution.

The United States has been in unusual conflict with Russia in recent days over what the White House considers Mr. Putin's aggressive support of Mr. Yanukovich. The Russian ambassador in Washington was summoned to the State Department on Monday to hear a protest.

But Mr. Powell insisted that the two could work together. "We're not looking for a contest with the Russians over this," he said. "We're looking for a way to make sure that the will of the Ukrainian people is respected."
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Old November-26th-2004, 11:09 AM   #15
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Here's a wrapup from Daniel Drezner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Drezner
Ukraine's fine line between legal and extralegal

Ron Popeski reports for Reuters that Ukraine's Supreme Court has rebuffed the Central Election Commission's certification of Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich as the presidential winner over Viktor Yushchenko. As previously noted, this is not an outrageous surprise, as Kuchma's influence over the Supreme Court was not strong.

More intriguingly, Roman OLearchyk reports in the Kyiv Post that at least one television station has replaced it's Kuchma-crony news director and recast its broadcast in a more "objective" manner.

Stefan Wagstyl and Tom Warner report in the Financial Times on the increasingly uncomfortable position Ukraine's two top oligarchs (Viktor Pinchuk and Rinat Akhmetov) find themselves. If they stick with Yanukovich, they risk a general strike that would have some effect on their businesses. If they permit Yushchenko to come to power, they'll be on the uncomfortable end of a corruption probe.

When a government facing a popular uprising, there is a moment when all of Burke's "pleasing illusions" about power fade away, and the rulers face a choice between using raw coercion or backing down. At this juncture, there is one of three possibilities:

1) The leadership backs down;
2) The leadership cracks down;
3) The leadership tries to crack down but the coercive apparatus splits.

That moment is rapidly approaching in Kiev.

Last edited by Gordon B; November-26th-2004 at 11:09 AM.
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Old November-26th-2004, 11:48 AM   #16
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Would somebody please pry Dhimmi Carter away from all the porn DVDs in the Billy Jeff Cliton Presidential Adult Book Store and Massage Parlor and let him certify this honest election?

Like he's done elsewhere.
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Old November-26th-2004, 08:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte Smith
Powell Says U.S. Will Not Accept Final Tally in Ukraine
By BRIAN KNOWLTON,
International Herald Tribune

WASHINGTON, Nov. 24 - With international pressure mounting on Ukraine, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said today that the United States could not accept its recent election results. He urged President Leonid Kuchma not to use force against the sprawling crowds in Kiev streets protesting the official outcome.

Defying American and European calls not to certify the election, Ukraine declared today that Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich was the winner of elections that several foreign monitoring groups and a White House special envoy have called seriously flawed.

"We cannot accept this result as legitimate because it does not meet international standards," Mr. Powell said, "and because there has not been an investigation of the numerous and credible reports of fraud and abuse."
But he'll accept it in his own back yard...
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Last edited by Deke; November-26th-2004 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Shortened it a bit...
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Old November-26th-2004, 09:05 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Deke
But he'll accept it in his own back yard...
Yuk yuk yuk. But I'm afraid only the pointiest of heads are decrying fraud in the USA; the candidates are not. I know you jest, but it is a different situation in the Ukraine where the candidate, the media, the people in the streets, and international observers are decrying fraud. Plus, come on. LOOK AT YUSHCHENKO! Are you going to say, "Nothing going on here that you won't find in a stable democracy like the US." The guy was poisoned!

I don't want to fly off the handle. I know you aren't serious in diminishing the situation in the Ukraine by comparing it falsely to just the failed hopes of a Democrat victory in the USA.

Go Ukraine!
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Old November-27th-2004, 06:11 PM   #19
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(Reuters) - Ukraine's parliament, in a vote providing a moral boost for opposition supporters massed in the capital, said on Saturday the disputed presidential poll handing victory to Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich was invalid. Parliament has no legal authority to annul the election results, but with vast crowds backing liberal challenger Viktor Yushchenko's call for a new vote, the declaration carries political weight.
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Old November-27th-2004, 06:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte Smith
Yuk yuk yuk. But I'm afraid only the pointiest of heads are decrying fraud in the USA; the candidates are not. I know you jest, but it is a different situation in the Ukraine where the candidate, the media, the people in the streets, and international observers are decrying fraud. Plus, come on. LOOK AT YUSHCHENKO! Are you going to say, "Nothing going on here that you won't find in a stable democracy like the US." The guy was poisoned!

I don't want to fly off the handle. I know you aren't serious in diminishing the situation in the Ukraine by comparing it falsely to just the failed hopes of a Democrat victory in the USA.

Go Ukraine!
Admittedly I wasn't being entirely serious (Go on, the grinny face gave it away, didn't it?), but I was basing my little attempt at humour on more coincidences than the fact that one side lost.

There's the discrepancies between the exit polls (Kerry and Yushchenko both won) and the final result, the univestigated complaints of vote fraud, and the fact that Dubya wouldn't even let foreign observers in. At least Ukraine was that confident in its own little 'Embelished result'...

Of course, the fact that the Ukrainians are out in the streets, while the disaffected citizens of the US simply put up a website of apology does rather suggest that you guys aren't quite as riled up as they are...

I'm waiting to see if East Ukraine invade the streets if the result is reversed. It's odd. Neither side actually wants to split the country up, and yet that's the only way anyone's going to be satisfied. The only satisfactory outcome is going to also be the most unsatisfactory, whatever that outcome is.

I don't understand that last sentence.

I am obviously wise beyond my years.
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Old November-28th-2004, 08:41 AM   #21
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Before and After.



The two Georges, Bush and Soros are both supporting the good side in Ukraine.
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Old December-3rd-2004, 08:53 PM   #22
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Ah, the cracks are beginning to show. The judiciary have declared the election to have been unsatisfactory, and want the last bit doing again.

Didn't they learn anything from Florida?
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Old December-3rd-2004, 11:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Deke
Ah, the cracks are beginning to show. The judiciary have declared the election to have been unsatisfactory, and want the last bit doing again.

Didn't they learn anything from Florida?
Huh? A representative of the Ukranian government admitted in court today that the government stole the election from Yushchenko by falsifying the vote counts. You might want to read this from a Ukranian website. Here's the link

Regrettably, because of a boisterous yesterday, few noticed that a judicial bombshell exploded in the Supreme Court. Again, regrettably, even journalists present in the courtroom did not adequately pick up on the information and did not evaluate fully the importance of the testimony of a staff person in the President's Administration, as read into the court record by attorneys.

A turning point occurred yesterday in the court procedures. It was caused by the testimony of two individuals: a staff person of the President's Administration and one person from Maidan (maidanivets').

The staff member from the PA, in her testimony, made public the mechanism for the falsification of the election, and named the exact number of votes falsified for the benefit of Yanukovych after 20:00 in the evening on November 21.

The second person gave evidence to substantiate the mechanism of the falsification.

The mechanism of the falsification of the vote, made public by the statement to the Supreme Court by the staff member of the PA was that, by instruction of the PA there was formed a pyramid of collection of information by the so-called curators of regional, provincial, municipal, and local state administrations over all the general voting areas of Ukraine.

These curators collected information about the progress of the voting throughout all regions of Ukraine, and by the on-line system reported it to the server in the President's Administration. This information was processed and correcting instructions were sent back down the line.

The killing stroke that this falsification was guided from the President's Administration was the data from the PA server made public, that after the closing of the polling stations in the regions, in the time between 20:00 November 21 and 9:00 November 22, the number of voters in a single Ukrainian area increased by 1,200,000 voters.

In one only Donetske, the number of "voters" after 20:00 November 21 increased by 500,000.

You would have had to seen the faces of the representatives of the Central Election Commission and of Havrysh after the two statements were read in court by the attorneys. You would have had to hear the bleating of the attempts in somehow trying to explain the difference of 1,200,000 voters who appeared after 20:00 November 21.

They were caught on a hook by a petite, delicate, yet very brave woman.
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Old December-4th-2004, 01:34 AM   #24
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They were caught on a hook by a petite, delicate, yet very brave woman.
Tippy busted 'em?!
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Old December-4th-2004, 01:04 PM   #25
Deke
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The killing stroke that this falsification was guided from the President's Administration was the data from the PA server made public, that after the closing of the polling stations in the regions, in the time between 20:00 November 21 and 9:00 November 22, the number of voters in a single Ukrainian area increased by 1,200,000 voters.

In one only Donetske, the number of "voters" after 20:00 November 21 increased by 500,000.

You would have had to seen the faces of the representatives of the Central Election Commission and of Havrysh after the two statements were read in court by the attorneys. You would have had to hear the bleating of the attempts in somehow trying to explain the difference of 1,200,000 voters who appeared after 20:00 November 21.

They were caught on a hook by a petite, delicate, yet very brave woman.
My point exactly. In Florida they did it by reducing the democrat vote, not by inflating their own.

But then... this just keeps getting better. Q. What have Dubya and Yushchenko got in common? A. They both received funding and 'advice' from the same US 'Think tanks'.

Egad, I have got to start listening to the World Service during the day, when I'm a better position to take it all in. They have some great stuff on there that never seems to make the domestic news.
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Old December-4th-2004, 02:54 PM   #26
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Here's a NYTimes article about Yushchenko's illness, this is really creepy, and he's not doing too well. It would seem ridiculous if it was in a James Bond flick. I just hope he has a good vice pres.



Ukraine Candidate's Illness Stumps Doctors
By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL
International Herald Tribune

Published: December 4, 2004

VIENNA, Dec. 2 - When the once-robust, telegenic man was wheeled in through the sliding glass doors of the plush Rudolfinerhaus hospital in early September, he was severely ill, conscious but groggy and complaining of terrible abdominal pain. Multiple blood tests were abnormal, doctors here say; his skin was covered with odd-looking lesions; his digestive tract was dotted with ulcers from top to bottom.
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Europe's most illustrious doctors were stumped; the patient's many symptoms defied a unifying diagnosis. Eight days later, Viktor A. Yushchenko, Ukraine's opposition leader, checked out against medical advice, determined to return to the business of winning the presidential election in Ukraine.

In less than two weeks he was back, crippled by excruciating back pain that required such huge doses of morphine to control that he almost ended up on a ventilator. Once again, a week of testing found no medical explanation.

Mr. Yushchenko and his doctors agreed on a risky plan: Doctors threaded a small tube through the skin of his upper back, into his spinal canal, so he could receive constant pain-killing medication while campaigning.

And so it was that Mr. Yushchenko flew back to Kiev with a catheter lodged in his back, escorted by a team of Austria's most elite doctors. He campaigned with the tube in place for a week, attending several large rallies, according to his press secretary, Irina Gerashchenko.

Dr. Michael Zimpfer, the medical director at the hospital here, personally supervised Mr. Yushchenko. "I went with him because I had serious security concerns and I wanted to make sure he was handled properly," he said. Indeed, the doctors had become increasingly suspicious that foul play, possibly an unusual poisoning, could be the cause of their patient's problems, a charge that Ms. Gerashchenko repeated.

In interviews this week, the Austrian doctors were quick to emphasize that, scientifically, they could not say that the candidate had been poisoned. They tested only for common agents, and found none. But the medical team became so concerned about the possibility of an unconventional agent that they consulted biological and chemical weapons experts.

"A poisoning without the poison is like a murder without a gun," Dr. Zimpfer said. "But if someone said to me, 'Look what we found!' I wouldn't be at all surprised.

"In this case, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence," he said.

He continued: "As I've said to the family, if this is a poisoning, it's going to be very tricky and tough to discover. They are not going to use some regular household agent."

Ms. Gerashchenko said Mr. Yushchenko was continuing to receive treatment from Ukrainian doctors. "He feels much better than he did two months ago, but he's far from ideal," she said.

New details of Mr. Yushchenko's hospital admissions in Vienna raise disturbing questions: Was the candidate poisoned or infected with some biological agent, and, if so, with what? What is his current state of health, in the middle of a pivotal battle for power?

In September, Mr. Yushchenko immediately said he had been poisoned, but that charge was lost among the heated political debates and demonstrations in the final weeks of the campaign, which culminated in the disputed election.

"Look at my face," Mr. Yushchenko told the Ukrainian Parliament on Sept. 21, after his first stint in the Vienna hospital. "Note my articulation. This is one-hundredth of the problems that I've had. This is not a problem of political cuisine as such. We are talking about the Ukrainian political kitchen where assassinations are ordered."

Opponents dismissively suggested that the cause of Mr. Yushchenko's hospitalization was bad sushi or too much alcohol; doctors here said there was no evidence of either. But some doctors point out that it is conceivable Mr. Yushchenko had the bad luck to develop a rare illness, difficult to diagnose, at the height of the campaign.

The issue has persisted because of the obvious disfigurement and discoloration of his face, which is swollen and pocked with large bumps and cysts, and is a dusky grayish color. The left eye is bloodshot and sometimes waters.

Last week a British toxicologist, Dr. John Henry, suggested that Mr. Yushchenko's symptoms were consistent with dioxin poisoning, which causes a severe form of acne called chloracne. The condition occurs months to years after exposure, when the body seeks to eliminate residue of the chemical through the skin. But cases of dioxin poisoning are extremely rare. Scientists debate whether a huge one-time dose could be delivered as a poison.
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Doctors at Rudolfinerhaus said they did not test Mr. Yushchenko for dioxin in part because his skin changes were much milder in September, not suggestive of dioxin. The candidate refused a biopsy of his face - which doctors suggested to try to narrow down the causes - because he did not want to campaign with stitches. But dioxin and related toxic chemicals are detectable in the body years after exposure. Ms. Gerashchenko said tests for such substances had still not been performed.

Some doctors not involved with the Yushchenko case, consulted for their opinions, said he could be suffering from an unusual immune disease. Scleromyxedema, for instance, is an extremely rare progressive disorder that produces facial symptoms much like Mr. Yushchenko's. But it is not known to produce pain.

Dermatologists at Rudolfinerhaus initially suggested that the facial lesions could represent a slightly unusual case of a well-known condition called rosacea, where the face becomes swollen and lumpy. But Dr. Zimpfer said Mr. Yushchenko's skin nodules no longer indicated that disease.

Political intrigue is not the norm at Rudolfinerhaus, an elite private hospital that caters to wealthy Austrians and foreigners.

Dr. Zimpfer provided extensive details of Mr. Yushchenko's hospitalizations. He arrived first on Sept. 10, severely ill and unable to walk, after five days of terrible abdominal pain. Initial testing showed that he had a high white-cell count and elevated liver and pancreas enzymes, suggesting inflammation of those organs. His tests were negative for all the obvious possibilities, like hepatitis caused by a virus.

Scans showed that his liver, pancreas and intestine were, indeed, swollen. Internal examinations of the intestine using an endoscope found he had ulcerations - essentially bleeding abrasions - of the stomach and throughout his intestine and bowel as well. Ulcers are typically not spread out in that way.

The doctors gave him supportive care, like intravenous fluid and a restricted food intake to rest the digestive tract. As he gradually recovered strength, he opted to get back to the campaign trail. Already, doctors noticed that he was developing odd lesions on his face and trunk.

Ten days later, the candidate returned, after three days of what he called excruciating back pain. Its source was again a mystery, since related lab tests and scans were normal.

The pain was so severe that doctors had to place a large intravenous line into Mr. Yushchenko's chest and essentially nearly anesthetize him with huge doses of opiates. Because opiates depress respiratory functions, his breathing rate slowed, and his vital signs had to be constantly monitored. More medicine would have required that Mr. Yushchenko be placed on a respirator, Dr. Zimpfer said.

Mr. Yushchenko and his doctors made a difficult choice: They decided to place an epidural catheter between his shoulder blades into the membranes of the upper spine so that medicines could be delivered to the nerves in his back without compromising his mental abilities.

Epidural catheters are common for pain relief in childbirth, but they are far riskier when they are placed for longer periods and in the upper back, closer to the brain and vital nerves.

Mr. Yushchenko was discharged three days later, leaving with a retinue of doctors and cartons of medical supplies. He was still on "plenty" of medication, said Dr. Zimpfer. They arrived in Ukraine, and, after a few hours, Dr. Zimpfer returned to Vienna, leaving Mr. Yushchenko in the care of another Austrian doctor.

"He was severely ill, but this does not all add up to a single disease or even a known syndrome," Dr. Zimpfer said. "At this point his diagnosis is just a description of all his symptoms."

Steven Lee Myers of The New York Times contributed reporting from Kiev, Ukraine, for this article.
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Old December-8th-2004, 12:58 PM   #27
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Update from the Times of London

One sentence summary: Yushchenko was poisoned in an attempted assasination attempt. Details about the foreign agent used to try to kill him will be forthcoming.
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Old December-12th-2004, 12:43 PM   #28
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Yushchenko Aide Alleges 'KGB' Plot
Candidate's Chief of Staff Suspects 'KGB Experts' in Poisoning

Dec. 12, 2004 - A Ukranian presidential candidate's chief of staff believes "Soviet Union … sort of KGB experts" were behind the plot to poison his candidate, the aide told ABC News' "Good Morning America" today.

Austrian doctors said Saturday that Viktor Yushchenko, who faces a Dec. 26 runoff in Ukraine against the Kremlin-backed candidate, Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, was poisoned with dioxin as he campaigned for president.

When asked by ABC News' Bill Weir if the Russian government, and specifically President Vladimir Putin, had anything to do with the poisoning, Oleh Rybachuk said: "I am not very positive about government, but what I might say that was Soviet Union … sort of KGB experts are clearly involved in this plot."

Rybachuk did not directly implicate Prime Minister Yanukovych in the poisoning, which is believed to have happened at a dinner party in September, but said it was a much broader conspiracy.

"I wouldn't call this ordered by the prime minister," said Rybachuk. "Let's say it more broadly. It's the regime."

Advance Warning?

Rybachuk added that Yushchenko had been forewarned of the plot.

"I actually talked to [Yushchenko] in late July when getting messages from both Ukrainian and Russian ex-secret service agents saying there was a plot and poisoning is number one," he said.

Rybachuk said the agents told Yushchenko the goal would not be to kill him but to make him an "invalid" in order to knock him out of the campaign.

"We couldn't believe they would dare, but they did," said Rybachuk.

Yushchenko has called for an investigation into the poisoning plot, but said it should wait until after the election.

Ukraine's Supreme Court ruled that the initial election results declaring Yanukovych the winner were tainted by fraud.

Yushchenko will take a couple of days off before resuming the campaign, said Rybachuk.

"The worst is over," said Rybachuk. "He feels great … [but] he needs rest."
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Old December-12th-2004, 09:42 PM   #29
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And this happens on the same day that the parameds who attended the suspected suicide of Dr. Kelly have expressed their disagreement with the outcome of the enquiry.

You see? We shouldn't always dismiss conspiracy theories.
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Old December-17th-2004, 11:19 AM   #30
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The results of the tests support the idea that the poisoning was the work of the Ukranian Security Service.
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