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Old December-1st-2004, 02:06 PM   #1
graypencil
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Patriot Act #2 ..REALLY scary stuff!!

*next up ..Kristalnacht #2 ,,where the born agains start burning liberals at the stake ...

*****************************************

News Gathering Is Illegal Under New Patriot Act II
By Alex Jones
InfoWars.com
11-20-4

SECTION 102 of the new Patriot Act II states clearly that any information
gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can
be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign
power. This makes news gathering illegal.

A Brief Analysis of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003 - Also
Known as USA Patriot Act II

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) told the Washington Times that no member of
Congress was allowed to read the first Patriot Act that was passed by the
House on October 27, 2001. The first Patriot Act was universally decried
by civil libertarians and Constitutional scholars from across the
political spectrum.

William Safire, while writing for the New York Times, described the first
Patriot act's powers by saying that President Bush was "seizing
dictatorial control."

On February 7, 2003 the Center for Public Integrity, a non-partisan public
interest think-tank in DC, revealed the full text of the Domestic Security
Enhancement Act of 2003. The classified document had been leaked to them
by an unnamed source inside the Federal government. The document
consisted of a 33 page section by section analysis of the accompanying 87
page bill.

The bill itself is stamped "Confidential - Not for Distribution." Upon
reading the analysis and bill, I was stunned by the scientifically crafted
tyranny contained in the legislation. The Justice Department Office of
Legislative Affairs admits that they had indeed covertly transmitted a
copy of the legislation to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, (R-Il) and
the Vice President of the United States, Dick Cheney as well as the
executive heads of federal law enforcement agencies.

It is important to note that no member of Congress was allowed to see the
first Patriot Act before its passage, and that no debate was tolerated by
the House and Senate leadership. The intentions of the White House and
Speaker Hastert concerning Patriot Act II appear to be a carbon copy
replay of the events that led to the unprecedented passage of the first
Patriot Act.

There are two glaring areas that need to be looked at concerning this new
legislation:

1. The secretive tactics being used by the White House and Speaker Hastert
to
keep even the existence of this legislation secret would be more at home
in
Communist China than in the United States. The fact that Dick Cheney
publicly managed the steamroller passage of the first Patriot Act,
ensuring that no one was allowed to read it and publicly threatening
members of Congress that if they didn't vote in favor of it that they
would be blamed for the next terrorist attack, is by the White House's own
definition terrorism. The move to clandestinely craft and then bully
passage of any legislation by the Executive Branch is clearly an
impeachable offense.

2. The second Patriot Act is a mirror image of powers that Julius Caesar
and Adolf Hitler gave themselves. Whereas the First Patriot Act only
gutted the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and seriously
damaged the Seventh and the Tenth, the Second Patriot Act reorganizes the
entire Federal government as well as many areas of state government under
the dictatorial control of the Justice Department, the Office of Homeland
Security and the FEMA NORTHCOM military command. The Domestic Security
Enhancement Act 2003, also known as the Second Patriot Act is by its very
structure the definition of
dictatorship.

I challenge all Americans to study the new Patriot Act and to compare it
to the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence.
Ninety percent of the act has nothing to do with terrorism and is instead
a giant Federal power-grab with tentacles reaching into every facet of our
society. It strips American citizens of all of their rights and grants
the government and its private agents total immunity. Here is a quick
thumbnail sketch of just some of the draconian measures encapsulated
within this tyrannical legislation:

SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the Bush administration's
"enemy combatant" definition to all American citizens who "may" have
violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. (Section
802 is the new definition of domestic terrorism, and the definition is
"any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal
or State law.") Section 501 of the second Patriot Act directly connects
to Section 125 of the same act.

The Justice Department boldly claims that the incredibly broad Section 802
of
the First USA Patriot Act isn't broad enough and that a new, unlimited
definition of terrorism is needed.

Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful activities can be
grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. The
Justice Department states that they can do this because the person "had
inferred from conduct" that they were not a US citizen. Remember Section
802 of the First USA Patriot Act states that any violation of Federal or
State law can result in the "enemy combatant" terrorist designation.

SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a criminal act for any
member
of the government or any citizen to release any information concerning the
incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also states that law
enforcement does not even have to tell the press who they have arrested
and they never have to release the names.

SECTION 301 and 306 (Terrorist Identification Database) set up a national
database of "suspected terrorists" and radically expand the database to
include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups and anyone
involved in crimes or having supported any group designated as
"terrorist." These sections also set up a national DNA database for
anyone on probation or who has been on probation for any crime, and orders
State governments to collect the DNA for the Federal government.

SECTION 312 gives immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying
operations
against the American people and would place substantial restrictions on
court injunctions against Federal violations of civil rights across the
board.

SECTION 101 will designate individual terrorists as foreign powers and
again strip them of all rights under the "enemy combatant" designation.

SECTION 102 states clearly that any information gathering, regardless of
whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be
clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news
gathering illegal.

SECTION 103 allows the Federal government to use wartime martial law
powers domestically and internationally without Congress declaring that a
state of war exists.

SECTION 106 is bone-chilling in its straightforwardness. It states that
broad general warrants by the secret FSIA court (a panel of secret judges
set up in a star chamber system that convenes in an undisclosed location)
granted under the first Patriot Act are not good enough. It states that
government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no
prior court approval. This section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment
against unreasonable searches and seizures.

SECTION 109 allows secret star chamber courts to issue contempt charges
against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate
themselves or others. This sections annihilate the last vestiges of the
Fifth Amendment.

SECTION 110 restates that key police state clauses in the first Patriot
Act were not sunsetted and removes the five year sunset clause from other
subsections of the first Patriot Act. After all, the media has told us:
"This is the New America. Get used to it. This is forever." [Dove note:
NO! NESARA's Announcement will END the Bush regime's Fourth Reich
forever!]

SECTION 111 expands the definition of the "enemy combatant" designation.

SECTION 122 restates the government's newly announced power of
"surveillance without a court order."

SECTION 123 restates that the government no longer needs warrants and that
the investigations can be a giant dragnet-style sweep described in press
reports about the Total Information Awareness Network. One passage reads,
"thus the focus of domestic surveillance may be less precise than that
directed against more conventional types of crime."

*Note: Over and over again, in subsection after subsection, the second
Patriot Act states that its new Soviet-type powers will be used to fight
international terrorism, domestic terrorism and other types of crimes. Of
course the government has already announced in Section 802 of the first
USA Patriot act that any crime is considered domestic terrorism.

SECTION 126 grants the government the right to mine the entire spectrum of
public and private sector information from bank records to educational and
medical records. This is the enacting law to allow ECHELON and the Total
Information Awareness Network to break down any and all walls of privacy.
The government states that they must look at everything to "determine" if
individuals or groups might have a connection to terrorist groups. As you
can now see, you are guilty until proven innocent.

SECTION 127 allows the government to take over coroners' and medical
examiners' operations whenever they see fit. See how this is like Bill
Clinton's special medical examiner he had in Arkansas that ruled that
people had committed suicide when their arms and legs had been cut off.

SECTION 128 allows the Federal government to place gag orders on Federal
and
State Grand Juries and to take over the proceedings. It also disallows
individuals or organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena. So
now defending yourself will be a terrorist action.

SECTION 129 destroys any remaining whistle blower protection for Federal
agents.

SECTION 202 allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic
biological, chemical or radiological materials.

SECTION 205 allows top Federal officials to keep all their financial
dealings secret, and anyone investigating them can be considered a
terrorist. This should be very useful for Dick Cheney to stop anyone
investigating Haliburton.

SECTION 303 sets up national DNA database of suspected terrorists. The
database will also be used to "stop other unlawful activities." It will
share the information with state, local and foreign agencies for the same
purposes.

SECTION 311 federalizes your local police department in the area of
information sharing.

SECTION 313 provides liability protection for businesses, especially big
businesses that spy on their customers for Homeland Security, violating
their privacy agreements. It goes on to say that these are all
preventative measures -- has anyone seen Minority Report? This is the
access hub for the Total Information Awareness Network.

SECTION 321 authorizes foreign governments to spy on the American people
and
to share information with foreign governments.

SECTION 322 removes Congress from the extradition process and allows
officers of the Homeland Security complex to extradite American citizens
anywhere they wish. It also allows Homeland Security to secretly take
individuals out of foreign countries.

SECTION 402 is titled "Providing Material Support to Terrorism." The
section reads that there is no requirement to show that the individual
even had the intent to aid terrorists.

SECTION 403 expands the definition of weapons of mass destruction to
include any activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce.

SECTION 404 makes it a crime for a terrorist or "other criminals" to use
encryption in the commission of a crime.

SECTION 408 creates "lifetime parole" (basically, slavery) for a whole
host of crimes.

SECTION 410 creates no statute of limitations for anyone that engages in
terrorist actions or supports terrorists. Remember: any crime is now
considered terrorism under the first Patriot Act.

SECTION 411 expands crimes that are punishable by death. Again, they
point to Section 802 of the first Patriot Act and state that any terrorist
act or support of terrorist act can result in the death penalty.

SECTION 421 increases penalties for terrorist financing. This section
states that any type of financial activity connected to terrorism will
result to time in prison and $10-50,000 fines per violation.

SECTION 427 sets up asset forfeiture provisions for anyone engaging in
terrorist activities. There are many other sections that I did not cover
in the interest of time. The American people were shocked by the despotic
nature of the first Patriot Act. The second Patriot Act dwarfs all police
state legislation in modern world history.

Usually, corrupt governments allow their citizens lots of wonderful rights
on paper, while carrying out their jackbooted oppression covertly. From
snatch and grab operations to warrantless searches, Patriot Act II is an
Adolf Hitler wish list.

You can understand why President Bush/Dick Cheney & Dennis Hastert want to
keep this legislation secret not just from Congress, but the American
people as well.

Bill Allison, Managing Editor of the Center for Public Integrity, the
group that broke this story, stated on my radio show that it was obvious
that they were just waiting for another terrorist attack to
opportunistically get this new bill through.

He then shocked me with an insightful comment about how the Federal
government was crafting this so that they could go after the American
people in general. He also agreed that the FBI has been quietly
demonizing patriots and Christians and those who carry around pocket
Constitutions.

I have produced two documentary films and written a book about what really
happened on September 11th. The bottom line is this: the
military-industrial complex carried the attacks out as a pretext for
control. Anyone who doubts this just hasn't looked at the mountains of
hard evidence.

Of course, the current group of white collar criminals in the White House
might not care that were finding out the details of their next phase.
Because, after all, when smallpox gets released, or more buildings start
blowing up, the President can stand up there at his lectern suppressing a
smirk, squeeze out a tear or two, and tell us that "See I was right. I
had to take away your rights to keep you safe. And now it's your fault
that all of these
children are dead." From that point on, if anyone criticizes tyranny they
will be shouted
down by the paid talking head government mouthpieces in the mainstream
media.

You have to admit, it's a beautiful script. Unfortunately, it's being
played out in the real world. If we don't get the word out that
government is using terror to control our lives while doing nothing to
stop the terrorists, we will deserve what we get -- tyranny. But our
children won't deserve it.

HOW THE PATRIOT ACT COMPARES TO HITLER'S ERMDCHTIGUNGSGESETZ (ENABLING
ACT):

At http://www.furnitureforthepeople.com/actpat.htm you can read the
following 4 Articles:

1) How Patriot Act Compares to Hitler's Ermdchtigungsgesetz (Enabling
Act)

2) A 21st Century Comparison of The Enabling Act and The Patriot Act

3) Ten Key Dangers of The Patriot Act that Every American Should Know

4) Bill Moyers' NOW Comments on the Patriot Act

~~ Please tell your congress and senators to repeal the Patriot Act and to
throw out current legislation advocating a second act.
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Old December-1st-2004, 02:28 PM   #2
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Quote:
the born agains start burning liberals at the stake
*sniff*

I've...............waited so long...................*sniff*........for this day.



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Old December-1st-2004, 02:38 PM   #3
patricia
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My question is how do any of these amendments to existing law make the country any safer?? I think not. Restriction of personal freedoms is the camel's nose in the tent.
These amendments would not have prevented the lead-up to the Sept 11, 2001 attack.
They do not prevent a small group of terrorists, whether foreign, or domestic, from carrying out small attacks, commonplace in the rest of the world.
The amendments, however, do hobble the citizens of the U.S., whom this act is purported to protect, from exercising their much touted civil liberties, particularly by Mr Bush, with regard to his dream in Iraq, for Iraqis.
Wouldn't it be nice if Americans could enjoy the same freedoms which are being dangled in the Middle East, if only they would accept the occupation and exploitation of their natural resources by the invaders??
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Old December-1st-2004, 02:59 PM   #4
walto
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It's the whole camel's head (and a good part of its neck and one front paw--do they have paws?), if you ask me!
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the author quoted in #1, Alex Jones
I have produced two documentary films and written a book about what really happened on September 11th. The bottom line is this: the military-industrial complex carried the attacks out as a pretext for control. Anyone who doubts this just hasn't looked at the mountains of hard evidence.
If we don't believe that, how are we to believe his description of a Patriot Act II?

Scary stuff has been enacted, and scarier stuff may be coming down the pike, but we can't rely on a tinfoil-hat type for credible information about it.

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Old December-1st-2004, 03:21 PM   #6
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Ah, Patriot II, thank you.

For those who really feel that they're being intruded upon, there were 700 suspects rounded up before the election for fear of a terror attack here in the US. Were you one of them?

I think it's working. I haven't seen another attack yet in this country. If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't fear this intrusion on your life.

Just an FYI, I used to work in the Security Industry - in fact I was at Logan Airport when the 911 attack came down. I remember discussing the Patriot act at that time, and the government was well aware that this was an erosion of past rights. They just felt that it was needed to keep us safer.

Look at the facts, they support the continued use of the Patriot Act.
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coda
Ah, Patriot II, thank you.

For those who really feel that they're being intruded upon, there were 700 suspects rounded up before the election for fear of a terror attack here in the US. Were you one of them?

I think it's working. I haven't seen another attack yet in this country. If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't fear this intrusion on your life.

Just an FYI, I used to work in the Security Industry - in fact I was at Logan Airport when the 911 attack came down. I remember discussing the Patriot act at that time, and the government was well aware that this was an erosion of past rights. They just felt that it was needed to keep us safer.

Look at the facts, they support the continued use of the Patriot Act.
Oh my God.
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Coda
If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't fear this intrusion on your life.
Wasn't that the mantra of the Army McCarthy hearings?
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:35 PM   #9
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Cats like Coda scares me more than a Patriot Act.
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:38 PM   #10
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A second Kristalnacht. I do love the holidays.
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:44 PM   #11
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Monte,

Laws made in secret that may affect your rights as an American don't discomfort you a little? Or do you feel they won't be used against you because you're not a Muslim or an Arab?

Me? I'm scared for all the blacks whose parents gave them African and Arabic sounding names because they thought it was cool.

As for the Patriot Act stopping terrorism, people seem to forget that a lot of laws and intelligence was in place before 9/11 that may have stopped the attack.
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:45 PM   #12
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If you had friends die in the WTC attack, you may feel differently.
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:45 PM   #13
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Doesn't Coda mean the end?
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte Smith
A second Kristalnacht. I do love the holidays.
Most tasteless post in the history of Jazz Corner.
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:53 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Pete C
Most tasteless post in the history of Jazz Corner.
Oh come on, it's not even up to par for just me. And surely some of the tastelessness can be attributed to Grayp's breathless paranoia.
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:53 PM   #16
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Coda,

Don't pull that crap on me. I live in the DC area. I'm a defense contractor. You ever hear of the Pentagon? Or how about the DC school teacher and students who were flown into the Pentagon.

9/11's been used for everything from the 2002 elections to tax cuts. Enough.

What I'm commenting on is the sheep-like attitude "some" folks have towards governmental decrees.

Hell, we just found out that Congress doesn't even the read the bills they sign into law. Everyone's bitching about that bill that allows some comittee to read individual tax returns. No one knows how the amendment got into the bill in the first place.
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Old December-1st-2004, 03:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte Smith
Oh come on, it's not even up to par for just me.
In that case, may you be feted in such a manner.
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:02 PM   #18
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What crap?

I know of the pentagon, my brother works there. He didn't get hit. And I worry about him all the time being there.

My use of the 911 example was in defense of the Patriot Act. There is nothing sheepish in wanting to stay protected and showing a willingness to give up a bit of privacy for the good of all.

What do you mean that no one reads the bills? That's just ignorant, plain and simple. Maybe you would be happier if the US adopted the Taliban's breadth of freedom and privacy. Hell, we can't even see the womens faces - that's really private.

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Old December-1st-2004, 04:04 PM   #19
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If you're going to be touchy, Pete, let me assure you that I think Kristalnacht was a terrible thing and that Nazis are bad. I know I might be going out on a limb but there I said it. And my hackles get raised whenever comparisons are drawn between an outburst of sheer thuggery like Kristalnacht and democratic processes of any sort. It is the argument of a dunderheaded jackalope.
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:05 PM   #20
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coda: You worked security at Logan? Ah! Now I understand. Security at Logan were the rudest, dumbest assholes ever to put on rent-a-cop uniforms--at least until the TSA took over. The TSA crowd with their I-must-feel-your-tits program are really the bottom of the barrel.
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:06 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Monte Smith
A second Kristalnacht. I do love the holidays.


"Here comes Sinterklaas, her comes Sinterklaas, right down Sinterklaas lane......."
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte Smith
If you're going to be touchy, Pete, let me assure you that I think Kristalnacht was a terrible thing and that Nazis are bad. I know I might be going out on a limb but there I said it. And my hackles get raised whenever comparisons are drawn between an outburst of sheer thuggery like Kristalnacht and democratic processes of any sort. It is the argument of a dunderheaded jackalope.
Monte, where's the "democratic process" in the Patriot Act? What exactly is "democratic" about it? If that's your justification for your crack, you are a dunderheaded jackalope, and a poopy-head, too.
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DGT
I'm scared for all the blacks whose parents gave them African and Arabic sounding names because they thought it was cool.

Why?

Now your paranoia has driven you to believe that they will start rounding folks up because of their names?



Holy shit, Darryl. You're one smart cat, but that may be the most ridiculous thing you've ever written here.
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Dave
Monte, where's the "democratic process" in the Patriot Act? What exactly is "democratic" about it? If that's your justification for your crack, you are a dunderheaded jackalope, and a poopy-head, too.
If Ashcroft handn'ta resigned, you would have paid for that comment, traitor.
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:13 PM   #25
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I didn't work Security, I was the Controller at the company who worked the security. We're housed in the same facilities as the Massport management and were very involved in the investigation after the attack.

I'll never forget when the second plane hit the tower - there was a mad rush throughout the building, we were in a security lock down the rest of the day. The folks in the tower watched the second plane divert off path and could do nothing to stop it from happening.

I remember the plane going down in PA and how sickened everyone was when it happened. To me, it was like yesterday.

I don't have a problem with the Patriot Act because I feel very strongly that we need to use all of our resources to fight this war.

Frankly, I wonder which side some of you are on.
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:16 PM   #26
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I'm on the "Liberty and Justice For All" side, coda. It's in the Pledge of Allegiance. Not "Liberty And Justice For Whoever We Say Is Okay."
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:20 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Dave
Monte, where's the "democratic process" in the Patriot Act? What exactly is "democratic" about it? If that's your justification for your crack, you are a dunderheaded jackalope, and a poopy-head, too.
Furthermore, all kinds of evil can be perpetrated through a "democratic process." Very few of us still believe that nothing bad can happen in the United States. Not all of us have the luxury of being that starry-eyed, amoral, or complacent--whichever applies.

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Old December-1st-2004, 04:21 PM   #28
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Let's see, 250,000,000 people in the US and 700 under investigation because of the Patriot act. That works out to .000003 % of the US population.

Only those who have something to hide would be upset with how the act is carried out.
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Old December-1st-2004, 04:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coda
Only those who have something to hide would be upset with how the act is carried out.
Quote:
SECTION 202 allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic biological, chemical or radiological materials.

SECTION 205 allows top Federal officials to keep all their financial
dealings secret, and anyone investigating them can be considered a
terrorist.
Thanks, Coda! I feel safer already!

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Old December-1st-2004, 04:25 PM   #30
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Finch is on the side of "Liberty and justice for all, especially me. And by the way, quit violating my civil liberties. Even though I can't give you one example of how you have done so, I know you're doing it. Taking away my civil liberties has not been proven to curb terrorism. Of course, curbing terrorism hasn't been proven to be taking away any of my civil liberties, but so what? Now you're just confusing the point. But that's what I expect from you evil right-wingers. Constantly persecuting the common man, and cramming the Bible down our throats. I'm fucking hungry. I'm gonna go get something to eat, so fuck you!", and not the "my civil rights aren't being violated one iota, so why don't I just shut up and find something else to bitch about".
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