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http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041203/D86OEJ7G0.html


AP: Navy Probes New Iraq Prisoner Photos
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Dec 3, 5:32 PM (ET)

By SETH HETTENA


CORONADO, Calif. (AP) - The U.S. military has launched a criminal investigation into photographs that appear to show Navy SEALs in Iraq sitting on hooded and handcuffed detainees, and photos of what appear to be bloodied prisoners, one with a gun to his head.

Some of the photos have date stamps suggesting they were taken in May 2003, which could make them the earliest evidence of possible abuse of prisoners in Iraq. The far more brutal practices photographed in Abu Ghraib prison occurred months later.

An Associated Press reporter found more than 40 of the pictures among hundreds in an album posted on a commercial photo-sharing Web site by a woman who said her husband brought them from Iraq after his tour of duty. It is unclear who took the pictures, which the Navy said it was investigating after the AP furnished copies to get comment for this story.

These and other photos found by the AP appear to show the immediate aftermath of raids on civilian homes. One man is lying on his back with a boot on his chest. A mug shot shows a man with an automatic weapon pointed at his head and a gloved thumb jabbed into his throat. In many photos, faces have been blacked out. What appears to be blood drips from the heads of some. A family huddles in a room in one photo and others show debris and upturned furniture.

"These photographs raise a number of important questions regarding the treatment of prisoners of war (POWs) and detainees," Navy Cmdr. Jeff Bender, a spokesman for the Naval Special Warfare Command in Coronado, said in a written response to questions. "I can assure you that the matter will be thoroughly investigated."

The photos were turned over to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, which instructed the SEAL command to determine whether they show any serious crimes, Bender said Friday. That investigation will determine the identities of the troops and what they were doing in the photos.

Some of the photos recall aspects of the images from Abu Ghraib, which led to charges against seven soldiers accused of humiliating and assaulting prisoners. In several of the photos obtained by the AP, grinning men wearing U.S. flags on their uniforms, and one with a tattoo of a SEAL trident, take turns sitting or lying atop what appear to be three hooded and handcuffed men in the bed of a pickup truck.

A reporter found the photos, which since have since been removed from public view, while researching the prosecution of a group of SEALs who allegedly beat prisoners and photographed one of them in degrading positions. Those photos, taken with a SEAL's personal camera, haven't been publicly released.

Though they have alarmed SEAL commanders, the photographs found by the AP do not necessarily show anything illegal, according to experts in the laws of war who reviewed photos at AP's request.

Gary Solis, a former Marine Corps prosecutor and judge who teaches at the United States Military Academy, said the images showed "stupid" and "juvenile" behavior - but not necessarily a crime.

John Hutson, a retired rear admiral who served as the Navy's Judge Advocate General from 1997 to 2000, said they suggested possible Geneva Convention violations. Those international laws prohibit souvenir photos of prisoners of war.

"It's pretty obvious that these pictures were taken largely as war trophies," Hutson said. "Once you start allowing that kind of behavior, the next step is to start posing the POWs in order to get even better pictures."

At a minimum, the pictures violate Navy regulations that prohibit photographing prisoners other than for intelligence or administrative purposes, according to Bender, the SEALs spokesman.

All Naval Special Warfare personnel were told that prior to deployment, he said, but "it is obvious from some of the photographs that this policy was not adhered to."

The images were posted to the Internet site Smugmug.com. The woman who posted them told the AP they were on the camera her husband brought back from Iraq. She said her husband has returned to Iraq. He does not appear in photos with prisoners.

The Navy goes to great lengths to protect the identities and whereabouts of its 2,400 SEALs - which stands for Navy Sea, Air, Land - many of whom have classified counterterrorist missions around the globe.

"Some of these photos clearly depict faces and names of Naval Special Warfare personnel, which could put them or their families at risk," Bender said.

Out of safety concerns, the AP is not identifying the woman who posted the photos.

The wife said she was upset that a reporter was able to view the album, which includes family snapshots. Hundreds of other photos depict everyday military life in Iraq, some showing commandos standing around piles of weapons and waving wads of cash.

The images were found through the online search engine Google. The same search today leads to the Smugmug.com Web page, which now prompts the user for a password. Nine scenes from the SEAL camp remain in Google's archived version of the page.

"I think it's fair to assume that it would be very hard for most consumers to know all the ways the search engines can discover Web pages," said Smugmug spokesman Chris MacAskill.

Before the site was password protected, the AP purchased reprints for 29 cents each.

Some men in the photos wear patches that identify them as members of Seal Team Five, based in Coronado, and the unit's V-shaped insignia decorates a July Fourth celebration cake.

The photos surfaced amid a case of prisoner abuse involving members of another SEAL team also stationed at Coronado, a city near San Diego.

Navy prosecutors have charged several members of SEAL Team Seven with abusing a suspect in the bombing a Red Cross facility. According to charge sheets and testimony during a military hearing last month, SEALs posed in the back of a Humvee for photos that allegedly humiliated Manadel al-Jamadi, who died hours later at Abu Ghraib.

Testimony from that case suggest personal cameras became increasingly common on some SEAL missions last year.

[walto]

I don't think you've been listening to Coda, Ed. WHATEVER the U.S. does is ok. Here (i.e. Kansas) or abroad (including Iraq as well as Spain and France). These are evil times and there are bad Arabs out there, so each of us must be

Proud to be an American
Where at least we know we're free.

Only dopes, saps, weenies, commies, gays, and liberlas can't see this.

[Gary Sisco]

Free to torture, maim and murder non-Americans.

I do support the troops, all the way. That's why I want them home, now, all of them.

There are now more than 2000 VTers in Iraq from the NG alone, never mind active duty in the five services, and civilian gubmint workers. It won't be long at this rate before there's no one here to guard the home fires at all *except us militia.* Can't really claim the NG as a militia when it's not even *here,* now, can we?

[Dennis Gonzalez]

Originally Posted by walto

Only dopes, saps, weenies, commies, gays, and liberlas can't see this.

I know I missed it, but how did this term (liberlas) become common usage here?

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by Dennis Gonzalez

I know I missed it, but how did this term (liberlas) become common usage here?

Scott Dolan.

[patricia]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

Free to torture, maim and murder non-Americans.

I do support the troops, all the way. That's why I want them home, now, all of them.

There are now more than 2000 VTers in Iraq from the NG alone, never mind active duty in the five services, and civilian gubmint workers. It won't be long at this rate before there's no one here to guard the home fires at all *except us militia.* Can't really claim the NG as a militia when it's not even *here,* now, can we?

The rationale seems to be to throw more bodies into the fray to assure whatever victory is to be defined by the Bush Administration will be. Meanwhile, guys in the National Guard and retired former military men and womeni, in their forties are being recalled to active duty. Wait for the letter, Gary. This is insane!!!

[Gary Sisco]

What letter?

[lynn]

Originally Posted by Dennis Gonzalez

I know I missed it, but how did this term (liberlas) become common usage here?

Scott Dolan should have copyrighted the term. Pretty soon very other bigot will be using it.

[Gary Sisco]

See, now that's a reason why people use the term, right there. Everyone who doesn't think liberlathink is a "bigot."

Way to lose elections, right there. People are nowhere near as stupid as liberlas like to think (in their self-congratulationary insularity). They know when they are despised, if nothing else.

[shrugs]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

See, now that's a reason why people use the term, right there. Everyone who doesn't think liberlathink is a "bigot."

Way to lose elections, right there. People are nowhere near as stupid as liberlas like to think (in their self-congratulationary insularity). They know when they are despised, if nothing else.

Agreed. Even I have been guilty of stereotyping repub's as bigots because most of the ones I know/meet down here in NOLA are straight up crackers. But I shouldn't assume that all of them are that way. That said, I have noticed that a lot of liberals have a knee jerk reaction to any form of candid speech. If someone expresses a view that opposes their own or if it's the least bit controversial, then racism, male chauvinism or bigotry is at the root cause. It's ironic that liberals seem to want to censor as much as the christian right movement.

[Ennis Snavely]

Originally Posted by walto

I don't think you've been listening to Coda, Ed. WHATEVER the U.S. does is ok. Here (i.e. Kansas) or abroad (including Iraq as well as Spain and France). These are evil times and there are bad Arabs out there, so each of us must be

Proud to be an American
Where at least we know we're free.

Only dopes, saps, weenies, commies, gays, and liberlas can't see this.

FUCKIN' EY!!! I'M WITH YOU BROTHER!!!

[Ennis Snavely]

Originally Posted by shrugs

I have noticed that a lot of liberals have a knee jerk reaction to any form of candid speech...

Don't you think that can be said of a lot of conservatives as well? At least in my experience. Especially of high profile twits in the media. Look at how people get treated when they question things like the "under god" in the POA or prohibitions against flag burning, not to mention Adam and Steve and all that gay marriage stuff. Speaking of which: Ed, tell us a little bit about your avatar.

[Gary Sisco]

If it can be said for "both sides" (as if there are only two, among nearly 300 million people) it makes it no more correct. It makes it more despicable.

[lynn]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

See, now that's a reason why people use the term, right there. Everyone who doesn't think liberlathink is a "bigot."

Way to lose elections, right there. People are nowhere near as stupid as liberlas like to think (in their self-congratulationary insularity). They know when they are despised, if nothing else.

That term is being used as a derogatory statement about people that that person doesn't agree with. That type of behavior is bigotry since it is targeting an entire segment of the population.

I don't care what you guys say. It is meant to be a hateful, hurtful and demeaning term.

[Gary Sisco]

It's clear that you don't care what people say. That's why the liberlas have become widely despised group in themselves.

[Noj]

Conservatives are amazing politicians. They somehow succeeded at making liberals look bad for calling them on their bullshit.

[Root Doctor]

Originally Posted by lynn

That term is being used as a derogatory statement about people that that person doesn't agree with. That type of behavior is bigotry since it is targeting an entire segment of the population.

I don't care what you guys say. It is meant to be a hateful, hurtful and demeaning term.

Dismissiveness isn't the same as intolerance.

[Gary Sisco]

One of the primary reasons I abandoned this mad and tattered remnant that insists on calling itself a "left" in the US, is because of the irremovable authoritarian streak it developed that has now permanently embedded itself even in its approach to words, never mind actions or disagreements. Anyone who wants to control what people say will want to control a whole lot more than that, given the power to do so.

It is even more bizarre for one like myself who was around for the birth of "political correctness" in the US, which was birthed in the New Left *as a joke* in response to the Chinese Cultural Revolution of the time. If someone made a questionable remark, someone else would reply jokingly with something like "I don't know if that remark was politically correct, comrade."

The point is that it started *as a joke,* a form of amusement. It was decidedly not meant to be a way of silencing people or controlling what and how they think, and was never intended to be.

Let a hundred flowers bloom. Let a thousand schools of thought contend.

baby

Who in those days would ever have believed that the joke of the day would one day become a form of brainwashing in the public school system and throughout liberlaland?

No one.

History moves in mysterious ways.

Is "liberla" really such an offensive term? I think it's goofy more than anything else.

[Monte Smith]

Originally Posted by Ed the Happy Clown

Is "liberla" really such an offensive term? I think it's goofy more than anything else.

As I said: Scott Dolan.

[shrugs]

The right knee jerks with the best of them. I feel that a true liberal should believe in free speech and and if one examines the whole pc attitude that a lof of liberals have then one will see that at times this attitude leads towards a pro-censorhip stance.

[Ennis Snavely]

What's a "lof" of liberals?

And what's with Ed's avatar?

Originally Posted by Ed the Happy Clown

Is "liberla" really such an offensive term? I think it's goofy more than anything else.

I agree!!!




Though Lynn IS right about one thing. I should have patented the word.

Originally Posted by Ennis Snavely

And what's with Ed's avatar?

Stop staring, you degenerate.

Originally Posted by Root Doctor

Dismissiveness isn't the same as intolerance.

Please, Root........

Quit harshin Lynn's buzz, man.

If I can't be painted as a hateful/rightwing, misogynist, bigot, then who can? Who can, I ask you?

Of course, I've done a rather shitty job of covering my tracks, but the ever vigilant Lynn is no fool, and saw past my facade with the greatest of ease.

Yes, liberla is meant to be hateful, hurtful, AND demeaning. Just as she rightly points out.

The fact that I consider Dennis, Father Thorne, RBS, Jared, Crawjo, Noj, Finch, and many other liberlas around here to be good friends should NOT be taken into acount in this situation.

Lynn has finally exposed me for what I really am.

I'm almost sure of it.



I think.

No, no, I'm fairly certain.

[Gary Sisco]

I have no use for either the radical right (conservatives, they are not) or the liberlas, because I have no use for tyrannical attitudes. The only difference is which stuff or groups they want suppressed. Both are statist. Both are authoritarian. A jerking knee is a jerking knee, regardless. And neither has any corner on self-righteousness or self-delusion.

[Ennis Snavely]

Originally Posted by Gary Sisco

I have no use for either the radical right (conservatives, they are not) or the liberlas,

How about teenaged lesbian hookers?

[Gary Sisco]

Plenty.

[Uli]

I have lost some respect for conservative libertarians recently. What are they ever doing for society other than bitching about everybody else? Talking about liberal bashing, what an old hat and it don't matter from which side it comes the neo cons or the neo cons libertarians.

Originally Posted by Uli

I have lost some respect for conservative libertarians recently. What are they ever doing for society other than bitching about everybody else?

*ahem*

Who are we talking about again?