The J.J. Johnson Poll

[crawjo]

I've been listening to the J.J. Johnson Mosaic box the past week, and I'm just absolutely enraptured by the consistent beauty found throughout this set. Johnson's articulation on the instrument--especially on the ballads--is in a class by itself. This is a GREAT box of music.

The sole purpose of this poll is to identify posters who basically agree with me about Johnson and his musical genius.

[Pete C]

Not my favorite and there is no such thing as greatest.

[Richardo Caerleoni]

...not taking anything away from JJ (amazing but can sometimes sound bland?) , I think GM is more interesting...?

[stonemonkts]

If I had to vote it would be "no" but that seems very dismissive.

I like J.J. a lot, especially much of what he did during the mid 1950's. The first several discs in the Mosaic box are great (featuring his band with young Elvin Jones especially).

His solos on Walkin' (w/ Miles and Lucky Thompson) and Misterioso (w/ Monk, Rollins, and Blakey) are among my favorites by any musician on any instrument.

But I can't say he is my favorite trombonist.

Recently (thanks to Pete C.) I've been listening to much of the stuff Lawrence Brown was a part of away from the Ellington band. His lyricism and overall skills as an improviser are right up there with Bix, Coleman Hawkins, Miles, et. al.. He has that special something that rivets my attention each time he raised his horn to his lips.

Of course all of the above is totally subjective. Johnson's consistent level of playing certainly places him among the greats on the trombone. After that it is a matter of personal taste.

[John L]

J.J Johnson is certainly one of the kings of the trombone, and a central figure in modern jazz. I also like the Mosaic Box quite a bit.

But there is also something about J.J. that doesn't wear on me well for very long. He is one of those artists who I can enjoy listening to one day and then not want to hear for another two months.

I think that the main issue for me is that J.J.'s music is always so prim, proper, and straightlaced. Every note is articulated clearly in its little designated place. It sometimes makes me want to reach quickly for an antedote of some messy wild tailgate trombone from Roswell Rudd or Kid Ory.

[BlueMiles]

To me J.J. is the MAN on trombone. He brought the bone into the bebop era, and he played magnifiently and beautifully every time out. For sheer beauty, J.J.'s only peer would be Lawrence Brown.

The sheer production of music from Johnson is astonishing, and this went on all the way through his long career. Late in his career he produced "Vivian," as beautiful a "standards" album as anyoine could expect. J.J. was shown off as a great composer and arranger on "Brass Orchestra."

I'm also a big fan of Steve Turre. The two occasionaly played together, and of course Turre put on a tribute album to J.J. Would we have Steve Turre's creativity, skill, and passion without J.J.?

Sure, there is usually an elegance to J.J.'s playing that some regard as being prim and proper. At times I like to hear a growling vocalized player like Ray Anderson. But every great jazz player can go out there and wail. That apllied to pianist John Lewis, and it also applied to J.J.

[Richardo Caerleoni]

Agree with ALL above...Not saying this because Robin posts on here...but I would be interested in his take on this? Hell, he should know! I have heard a few tracks where he sounds (sort of) like GM?

Also, Mr Brookmeyer may have a point!

Anyone know where GM is now? I have asked this before...?

RC.

Pete's just talking out of his ass again.


J.J. IS the greatest!


Period.

[Richardo Caerleoni]

Scott - where are your twins? Playing valve in gay Pari ?!

Bring 'em back for Christmas!

RC!

Originally Posted by Richardo Caerleoni

Scott - where are your twins? Playing valve in gay Pari ?!

Bring 'em back for Christmas!

RC!

I'll consider it.

[sonic1]

JJ is indespensible to the history of the trombone.

But I couldn't put him over Kid Ory. Nor Jack Teagarden. Nor Slide Hampton or Jimmy Knepper. He didn't put the trombone on the jazz map, but he did put the trombone on the bebop map.

But my favorite trombonist is Mr. Grachan Moncur III. Roswell Rudd and George Lewis are also favs.

[crawjo]

I have the Grachan Moncur Mosaic box, and to be honest it doesn't move me the way J.J.'s playing does. I can see how someone could hear his music as straight-laced, but to me it is just conveys such a range of emotions, and when he's playing a slow ballad, I've never heard anyone on the instrument who can compare. The Mosaic box is an absolute wonder...I agree that the earlier sessions are strongest but the whole box kicks ass as far as I am concerned. J.J.'s playing on stuff like "Blue Trombone" "God Bless the Child," "My Old Flame," and in a different vein, "Misterioso," "Paul's Pal," and "Minor Mist" is just so moving and articulate. Oh, and "Star Dust" too. And then there's the earlier stuff; I for one think that his playing is the most memorable on the Eminent Jay Jay Volume One, where he's paired up with Clifford Brown.

I guess the best compliment I can give the music is that hearing J.J. play the trombone makes me wish that it was a more featured instrument in modern jazz.

[Enforcer]

I really love the way J.J. plays. On most instruments, it's impossible for me to choose a favorite. There are usually at least five or six musicians who strike me as different but equally great. But on trombone, J.J. just stands out above the rest for me.

Moncur is a badass, though. No doubt. I like Roswell Rudd, too. Of the more recent cats, Turre is interesting and my favorite would have to be Robin Eubanks.

[Richardo Caerleoni]

Originally Posted by crawjo

I have the Grachan Moncur Mosaic box, and to be honest it doesn't move me the way J.J.'s playing does. I can see how someone could hear his music as straight-laced, but to me it is just conveys such a range of emotions, and when he's playing a slow ballad, I've never heard anyone on the instrument who can compare. The Mosaic box is an absolute wonder...I agree that the earlier sessions are strongest but the whole box kicks ass as far as I am concerned. J.J.'s playing on stuff like "Blue Trombone" "God Bless the Child," "My Old Flame," and in a different vein, "Misterioso," "Paul's Pal," and "Minor Mist" is just so moving and articulate. Oh, and "Star Dust" too. And then there's the earlier stuff; I for one think that his playing is the most memorable on the Eminent Jay Jay Volume One, where he's paired up with Clifford Brown.

I guess the best compliment I can give the music is that hearing J.J. play the trombone makes me wish that it was a more featured instrument in modern jazz.

CRAWJO - Didn't JJ play on one of Miles's early Prestige dates? With Rollins, Jackie, Art B etc.? I think so - and was best on the set?

Agree with all your choices - except I think Grachan Moncur had a lot to offer ( a different take) and now seems to have vanished...

Repeat...Would like to hear Robin on this - "makes me wish that it was a more featured instrument in modern jazz" Agree again.

[Derek Taylor]

I voted maybe. J.J. is definitely near the top for me & that Mosaic is one of my favorite boxes. But there’s definitely a mood & a place for growlers like Ory and Rudd too along with free improv cats like Paul Rutherford and Gail Brand. Of the more recent purveyors of the slide I’m partial to Steve Swell and Jeb Bishop. Nils Wogram is great too.

[LeMo]

The greatest I've ever seen was George Lewis.
The young George Lewis, pre-"Hommage to Charles Parker", in solo, duet with Braxton and in quartet with the same. The man was flying. Makes me love the bone.
Nobody has ever play at the level I've seen Lewis play.
The closest contender I've seen (is) Ray Anderson.
Too many people forget how great he is, really.

I've seen J.J Johnson on stage at the end of the seventies.
A great older player who could have his "moment" but who was acting too much like "Look at me, I'm a Living Legend".

He was also speaking so much between tunes, mostly a pompous talk for a long and boring time (like "This tune from Wayne Shorter has always puzzle me, so I'm playing it over and over to discover its secret, and let me tell you blah, blah), than the concert had no consistency or rythm.
Yeah, I know, it's hard to get old...

[wasabcl11]

As of now, my favorite trombonist is a tie between Curtis Fuller and Steve Davis. Yet, greatest is such a vague word. J.J. Johnson is by far the most important and influential trombone player in modern jazz. If he had not came along, the number of trombones in combos and small ensembles in modern jazz today would be much fewer. And as others have mentioned, his recordings are consistently good or excellent. For all these traits that are commonly associated with greatness, I felt compelled to vote yes in the poll.

[Steve Reynolds]

love Lawrence Brown, Wolter Wierbos, Ray Anderson and George Lewis more

maybe others too

still love JJ - but I am more into the expressive sort of player

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by LeMo

He was also speaking so much between tunes . ..
Yeah, I know, it's hard to get old...

I think 'bone players need to rest their chops at any age, but especially with age.

[grove47]

JJ was an innovator! Beyond reproach, as they say.

Roswell is great, too, an innovator in his own right by bringing the expressive tailgate tradition into modern and post-modern improvisation.

Tim Sessions, baby,

SG

[hornplayer]

JJ all the way. He put trombone on the "modern" Jazz map. The cats now would not "be here" w/out him....

Speaking as another "low brass" player... I could listen to him all day.

[hornplayer]

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

still love JJ - but I am more into the expressive sort of player

curious, Steve.... what is not "expressive" about JJ's playing? or how do YOU define "expressive?"

[Steve Reynolds]

maybe I mean in a more "heart on one's sleeve" manner - would rather listen to Ray Anderson, George Lewis or Wolter Wierbos - even if they were playing more straight material - maybe I like less restraint when it comes to the trombone.

In addition, I don't think trmobone works that well in bop or hard bop settings - was never a big fan of Curtis Fuller - would rather hear Al Grey with Benny Carter or Lawrence Brown with Duke - something about trombone with swing based music or free music that makes the instrument more apt than it is in a bop setting.

[JamesH]

The term great signifies legend. I think there definitely can be a greatest, but not necessarily a best.

Example, Babe Ruth is the greatest baseball player ever, but most likely not the best. In that sense J.J. is in my opinion the greatest.

[Tom Storer]

I can see where John L is coming from, but also Crawjo. There are days when I listen to JJ and he is my favorite, and days when he isn't. Those later quintet albums with Ralph Moore never really got to me like I hoped they would. But he's definitely way up there.

[clinthopson]

I have favorites, not "the best" but my favorites, from different eras - Jack Teagarden and Kid Ory from the beginnings, Vic Dickenson, Sam Nanton and Dickie Wells from the swing era, J.J. Johnson, Bill Harris and Frank Rosolino from the bop era, Curtis Fuller from the hard bop era, Bob Brookmeyer from the cool school, and my current favorite, Andy Martin.

[Mike Schwartz]

I'm glad the distinction *(or your favorite)*was added to the poll question.

In my case he's my personal favorite for number of reasons, as I was both smitten by, and idolized J.J. from the age of 12 when I was put into the trombone section in the JHS band, followed by some 18 years of studying, playing, and working as a trombonist.

Over the years of having the jazz bug (which refuses to go away!) J.J. remains a favorite as many, many amazing trombonist have continued to come across my 'radar scope.'

Pete will correctly remind us from time to time, that there is no such thing as "The Greatest" anything, but as I joke with one of my closest friends who I share live & recorded music with, that the list of favorites gets seemingly larger as time goes on and new players come into focus, and why not?

Now that names are being thrown out there, I am in concert with every other name thus far put up, and will add Slide Hampton to the list, who is amazing for any age to this day, and long time JC contributor Robin Eubanks, who is nothing short of killin'!!

[clinthopson]

I will say that there is one entity which is the greatest of their type - Lambert, Hendricks and Ross. Nothing comes close.

[Ron Thorne]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

... and my current favorite, Andy Martin.

Now there's a cat who could use some more exposure. What a monster!



I had only heard Andy on recordings until last year when my wife, Valerie Bishop and I caught Andy with the Carl Saunders Sextet at Charlie O's Jazz Club in Los Angeles. He's masterful — and very approachable, too. We had a nice chat between sets.

Another under-appreciated west coast trombonist also comes to mind ... Bill Reichenbach.

[hornplayer]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

I will say that there is one entity which is the greatest of their type - Lambert, Hendricks and Ross. Nothing comes close.

Well now, see, I disagree. and in my disagreement, I offer up the New York Voices. very creative as composers and arrangers, and vocally far superior to Lambert, Hendricks and Ross, imho.