Why Should We Care If Anyone Finds Standards Boring?

Gary Sisco · January-3rd-2005, 09:28 AM

Discuss.

Pete C · January-3rd-2005, 09:44 AM

I already answered that in my initial response to the original thread.

VIBEr · January-3rd-2005, 10:10 AM

Gary, I think we should care, but I'd like to hear your opinion first.

Gary Sisco · January-3rd-2005, 10:18 AM

It just seems to me that jazz guys take these things way too seriously. If I told someone that I find contemporary C&W boring, who would care, and why should they? Clint thinks rap sucks. So what? He doesn't like it. Why should he, given his age and his necessarily different cultural influences and references and such?

To me, it's like asking a hardcore friend to get into your old Judy Collins records from the 60s. Like it's going to happen, already. The cat digs hardcore. So what? Why should he dig Judy Collins as well?

There are so many different forms and ways of playing jazz readily available today that the word has almost no meaning, stylewise. If someone finds standards boring, why should it be an issue? They could listen to other stuff for the rest of their lives and still not hear all of it.

Has anyone ever "won someone over" to something that they thought was boring to begin with? Why bother even trying? If a friend gave me a pile of contemporary C&W to listen to "to win me over," I'd, if he was a good friend, say thank you and put the stack on a shelf and then give it back to him without comment (or playing). If he wasn't a good friend, I'd just tell him I wasn't interested and thanks, anyway, and how would the world be any worse off than before?

Steve Reynolds · January-3rd-2005, 10:23 AM

like me pretending to be interested in Bob Dorough or Mildred Bailey

Pete C · January-3rd-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Reynolds

like me pretending to be interested in Bob Dorough or Mildred Bailey

Two of my favorites.

Darryl G. Thomas · January-3rd-2005, 10:33 AM

We shouldn't.

Because chances are the person complaining about standards is probably an ideologue. What a person should do is concentrate on the performance. If the artist is performing a standard did he/she bring something new to the table? Was the performance inspiring?

VIBEr · January-3rd-2005, 10:39 AM

Thanks, Gary, for your reply. I need a little time to craft a good response as to why we should care without literally writing an essay on the subject. But I would like to throw in that there is a difference between someone who prefers listening to something other than standards and someone who thinks standards are boring. In my mind those are two entirely different things.

clinthopson · January-3rd-2005, 11:20 AM

Sisco got it right.

I've heard several players from the younger generation who impressed the heck out of me like Tamir Handelman, Claire Daly, Gerald Clayton and Catarina Strasmeyser. Of course, their style of playing pretty much fits my antideluvian tastes.

Dr Dave · January-3rd-2005, 11:29 AM

I think Gary and Darryl have it nailed. The only thing I would re-emphasize is that evangelical approaches are useless. They also remain very, very popular around here.

January-3rd-2005, 12:10 PM

Amazing.

Boris Badenov · January-3rd-2005, 12:24 PM

I should care, I should go around weeping
I should care, I should go without sleeping
Strangely enough, I sleep well
'cept for a dream or two
But then I count my sheep well
Funny how sheep can lull you to sleep

So I should care, I should let it upset me
I should care but it just doesn't get me
Maybe I won't find someone as lovely as you
But I should care and I do

Pete C · January-3rd-2005, 12:42 PM

Unfortunately, I heard the above in the voice of Kenny "Pancho" Hagood.

Boris Badenov · January-3rd-2005, 12:55 PM

Pete -

My sincerest apologies. I would delete, but for two reasons. First, I don't think the harm to you can be undone at this point. And second, you have ample revenge by causing ME to hear the song in Kenny's voice.

crawjo · January-3rd-2005, 01:14 PM

Gary,

So why care about what anyone thinks regarding music? What difference does it make? Why not just shut down JazzCorner, then? No sense in arguing about music if it's all a matter of personal taste.

Vince Kargatis · January-3rd-2005, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIBEr

there is a difference between someone who prefers listening to something other than standards and someone who thinks standards are boring. In my mind those are two entirely different things.

Well, if you phrase the second statement more accurately, you simply have someone bored by standards. Which makes it a particular case of the first, and not "totally different". YA semantic mystery solved by E-Prime! :)

Jeff Albert · January-3rd-2005, 03:08 PM

One problem with saying "standards bore me," is that it puts me in a mind set that dismisses certain performers or performances because they contain standards. That idea will keep me from honestly listening to a lot of music, because I will have dismissed it before I even heard it.

I prefer mind sets that have us listen then judge, as opposed to judging before we listen. It's ok to dislike something, but its better to dislike it because of what it is, as opposed to what we think it is, but were to lazy or closed minded to explore for ourselves. Of course this applies to much more than music.

All that being said, i haven't really been moved by a performance of a standard in a while.

AntManBee · January-3rd-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Albert

It's ok to dislike something, but its better to dislike it because of what it is, as opposed to what we think it is

Couldn't agree more.

Suibne · January-3rd-2005, 04:35 PM

Standards, in the hands of most players these days, are boring to this listener. Gotta go back to the older players to hear some justice being done to many of these tunes. I'd rather hear original music, though in the right hands standards can take on a new life.

Stuckinagroove · January-3rd-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris Badenov

I should care, I should go around weeping
I should care, I should go without sleeping
Strangely enough, I sleep well
'cept for a dream or two
But then I count my sheep well
Funny how sheep can lull you to sleep

So I should care, I should let it upset me
I should care but it just doesn't get me
Maybe I won't find someone as lovely as you
But I should care and I do

Boooooooorrrrrriiiiiiiiiinnnnnnggggggggg!!!

AntManBee · January-3rd-2005, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suibne

in the right hands standards can take on a new life.

As, quite literarily, in those of Derek Bailey:

My 1000th post!

Pete C · January-3rd-2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntManBee

My 1000th post!

Mazel tov!

AntManBee · January-3rd-2005, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Mazel tov!

Sorry for my ignorance, but

Pete C · January-3rd-2005, 05:34 PM

Congratulations. It's a phrase used by Jews and New Yorkers of all persuasions.

Jesse · January-3rd-2005, 05:47 PM

I, sir, am neither, and use it appositely.

(Married a Lithuanian Jewess, though.)

Pete C · January-3rd-2005, 05:48 PM

You're honorary.

Jesse · January-3rd-2005, 05:56 PM

You're powerful!

Fiat!

AntManBee · January-3rd-2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Congratulations. It's a phrase used by Jews and New Yorkers of all persuasions.

Ah, I see - well, thanks Pete! Getting a bit nostalgic 12,000+ posts ahead?

Pete C · January-3rd-2005, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse

Fiat!

Fix it again, Tony?

Jesse · January-3rd-2005, 06:08 PM

What thread is this? The Algonquin?