Suggestions: portable music player

[Sergio Zamora]

I've been looking into getting a portable music player so I don't have to lug around three or four wallets full of CDs and don't have to scramble through them to find what I'm looking for. It's also a pain to change CDs in an airplane.

For the longest time, all of those little devices seemd way overpriced, but I guess I'll just bite the bullet.

As I see it, my options are to get a hard-drive-based device or to buy an external hard drive and get a flash-memory-based little thingy, which holds no more than maybe a gig. But I can rip all my CDs to the external hard drive and just copy over whatever I think I want to hear for a flight or whatever.

Another consideration is that since I am traveling, it would be nice to play stuff in the car - so if there's a car adapter or something like that, that would be sweet.

I'm kinda leaning towards the hard-drive-based. Of those, it's either the regular ones (20 to 60 gig or so) to the mini-hard-drive ones with 4 or 5 gig. The price discrepancy isn't so much that I think it's a big deal, but I honestly can't imagine needing 20 or more gig of music with me at any point in time.

Of the ones I've seen, the Creative Labs Zen Touch , the Apple iPod, and the Dell DJ seem the most appealing. The Sonys I've seen use mini-disc, which is kind of a turn-off, but I think the new ones have a hard-drive.

Having said that, if someone can convince me to get a flash-memory thing, please do so.

So, any suggestions?

(note: my sources so far have been CNET and another site - I'm not looking for online reviews or reports, but rather more personal experiences and opinions)

[Rob C]

I've had my 40 GB Creative Nomad Zen Xtra for about a year, and have been really happy with it. Not as sexy as the iPod, but I just checked Amazon and the 40GB iPod is $400, while the Zen is $235. To me, it's hard to justify the extra cash for a slightly more styling exterior.

I think I'm about two albums from maxing it out, but I currently have 540 albums ripped onto it (mostly at 160 kbps--some higher). It's awfully nice to have that much music with you to pop on at a moment's notice.

I did have to return the first Zen I got, because the battery wasn't staying in place properly and the power kept cutting out. But Amazon replaced it toot sweet and I've had no problems with the second one I got.

I wouldn't get less than 40 GB, personally.

[Sergio Zamora]

Thanks, Rob. I'm not really considering the iPod, because it does seem so damn overpriced, but since it's the most popular one and most highly rated, I figured I'd throw it in the ring too.

How is the software on the Zen. I really want to be able to organize by artist and album. I don't want to have to scroll through song lists to find stuff.

[BFrank]

Forget the iPod. Especially if you are going to use it with a PC. My girlfriend got an iPod mini, and it's been nothing but trouble as far as interfacing with the computer.

Definitely NOT worth the extra money. There are plenty of other MP3 players out there that do a fine job. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, but somehow Apple always suckers people into paying up for "cool". I have an Archos 20Gb player/recorder that's a year or two old now, but still works fine. No complaints.

BTW, as far as organization, it's just a folder-related interface. You create your own folders, copy your files into them and scroll & click into whatever you want. No special software required (which is another irritating thing about the iPod - you really need to use iTunes).

[Vince Kargatis]

I disagree with the above, I'd recommend the iPod myself. I currently use an old Archos 20GB (the best deal 3 years ago), but will replace it with an iPod when it dies, or I get sick of it. BFrank, in terms of interface, there's no contest between the archos and ipod, imo - and I use both daily. I bought my wife an iPod, so have plenty of experience with it. I'm guessing you get what you pay for - the iPod interface and ergonomics are very nice, very slick, which makes a big difference during frequent use. I have not used contemporary competitors, though, so can't compare on that score.

iTunes is indeed necessary, but that's not a minus - it's a very slick player, and its smart playlists rock (I'm not sure if other players can use them). Smart playlists are built dynamically based on criteria, very useful if you listen to shuffled music. For example, my master playlist I use balances new stuff (which I am presumably less familiar with), and older "catalog" stuff, in this way:
- ~half unheard old stuff
- music added since last April and heard less than twice and not heard in the last month
- music added since last June and heard less than 3 times and not heard in the last month
- music added since November and heard less than 4 times and not heard in the last 2 weeks

(dates are just chosen after big orders/ripping sessions)

Then I shuffle that, getting regular exposure to unheard stuff and newer stuff without ever worrying about manual playlist manipulation. Now, dunno if other players can do that, but I've not heard so, and it's a powerful method of listening organization. (The criteria can be any metadata, genre, title, comments, playcounts, whatever.) Plus iTunes has a fairly fast database (sorting, etc) - only downside is its memory footprint. I have not had any trouble using a PC.

Sergio, iPods are so common these days, surely you can get a friend to give you a tour of theirs?

I'd suggest 20GB minimum, just to prevent your having to sync often. Depends on what you want on there tho. 20GB or more allows a decent variety of full albums (say ~350).

[Ron Thorne]

Here's my take, for what it's worth.

I saw this thread, a subject I've been thinking about personally, and thought ... hmmm. I read the first four posts and decided to not reply, just moments ago. Then, Vince chimed in and I found renewed vigor, so to speak.

I've been considering acquiring some sort of portable music storage/player myself. Our youngest son just got an iPod and is very happy with it. He's a pc user, though he has a definite and sustained appreciation for much of what Apple has done.

On some significant fronts, Justin got his (40GB) iPod for FREE and then purchased a very inexpensive used computer on eBay to act solely as his music storage device. Oh, and I should point out that Justin is very particular about these sorts of devices, and, like me, is a musician. While home for Christmas, I got a brief trial listening with my Grado SR-80 headphones. In a word ... remarkable!

He's informed me that I can get a FREE iPod, as well. So can you, I'm sure. No, he didn't fill out lots of forms or subscribe to anything. That "price" could make a whole lot of stuff pale in significance. Huh?

[Coda]

I still recommend buying one of the older mp3 players where you put in a cdr. They're under $100, each CD at a medium mp3 quality can hold about 12 CD's worth of music. The sound quality is the same as an ipod, dependant on the quality of the mp3 conversion and amount of compression.

Use your existing media player on your computer to store your complete library of music - they all do a decent job but not all allow you to burn to mp3 format without purchasing and add-on. Also, burn to the quality you need - if it's car listening you'll be fighting car and street noise so you can get away with a lower quality and thus more tunes per CD. All of the media players allow you to create favorites or categories so its easy to burn a bunch of cds.

If you have a tape drive in your car, you can purchase the accessory to allow you to use your car speakers - it's like $15

Pros: Cost. No one wants to steal one. As versatile as your access to burned mp3 cds. Sufficent time per CD. Versatile. CDs are cheap and not a worry if lost. Won't crash.

Cons: Size, good ones are slightly larger than a CD.

[Rob C]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

Thanks, Rob. I'm not really considering the iPod, because it does seem so damn overpriced, but since it's the most popular one and most highly rated, I figured I'd throw it in the ring too.

How is the software on the Zen. I really want to be able to organize by artist and album. I don't want to have to scroll through song lists to find stuff.

The Nomad lets you organize by Album, Artist and Genre, in addition to listing all tracks. I also like having playlists, which I have mainly used to organize various boxsets into the original album formats. (I think iPod probably organizes similarly.)

My wife has an Archos that she got about two years ago. Not as slick as the Nomad, but not bad. The firmware that comes with it sucks, but there is an open-source firmware available for download called Rockbox that improves things significantly.

The Nomad comes with software for your PC that allows you to rip, organize, and create playlists. That's not so hot, actually, IMO. I only use it to create playlists anymore. I use Exact Audio Copy to rip CDs to my computer's harddrive, then just copy them over to the Nomad. (The computer sees the Nomad as just another harddrive, although the interface looks slightly different, showing frames for the genres, albums, artists and tracks.)

One other thing, the Nomad comes with a decent little leather (or facsimile?) case with a belt clip. iPod doesn't--a friend who recently got an iPod just ponied up another $25 for a case.

OTOH, if you can get a good deal on an iPod, you probably can't go too wrong with that. I've never heard anything but good things about them, apart from the cost....

[Enforcer]

I'm no expert on them, but I bought my daughter an iPod for Christmas and she figured it out and is enjoying the hell out of it.

[hearsay]

I got a 10 GB Ipod from ebay a year ago for about $200 and it has changed my life! I used to try to carry around a few CD's and a CD player and switch them around on the subway, what a pain in the ass. I don't know much about the other brands, my brother has a clunky Rio, but the the shape and sleekness of the Ipod is a definite plus. I can easily slide it right into my jeans pocket and access anything I want very easily. I have about 50 GB of music on my computer, but 10 GB is plenty to have with me, 200 albums or so and I just swap around anything I want to hear. If you're going to be walking around with it, taking it on the bus or in crowded places, the Ipod style is worth considering the price.

Ron are you going to give us a hint on how we can get a 40 GB for free?

Oh, and re:Sergio's initial post. Sony does indeed make a 20GB mp3 "jukebox". It it goes for around $300.

[Tom Storer]

Yeah, Ron. If your son is handing out free iPods, put me on the list!

[Vince Kargatis]

Originally Posted by Coda

I still recommend buying one of the older mp3 players where you put in a cdr. They're under $100, each CD at a medium mp3 quality can hold about 12 CD's worth of music.

This recommendation strikes me as coming from someone who hasn't lived with an HD-based player. Have you played with a large capacity player? Really, the thought of being restricted in a single play session to 12 albums, after having 30 times that available in a player, seems incredibly restraining. MP3 discs are much closer to single CDs than they are to portable HD players, imo.

[Ron Thorne]

I may have confused the storage capacity of my son's iPod, but not the fact that he acquired it absolutely free in a promotional scheme. I've sent him an e-mail and will share his response, if useful.

For clarification, neither he nor I are "handing out free iPods."

[Coda]

Yes, I actually own a FastTrax. This is a 40gig capacity handheld that is primarally used to download photo images. Ipod is just now getting around to adding this feature. It has an input slot that accepts my camera chips so I take it with me when away from the computer. It features a 3" x 2" screen for viewing images, has built in speakers and headphone jacks. It has the same file saving capabilities as all the hand held harddrives.

It also features full mp3 capabilities, although the Ipod has a better user interface.

Honestly, I never found changing CDs to be that big a deal. I can usually find the time to swap a CD within a 12 hour period but really have never listened with headphones for that long a stretch. I keep mine (the CD based mp3 player) in the car along with my burned CDs. I don't worry about scratching the originals and wouldn't lose sleep if it was stolen.

[Rob C]

I had an MP3 CD player (trying to remember the brand...) and was very unhappy with it and returned it. It was pretty fine for MP3 CDs, but I got an annoying "clicking" sound when I would play regular music CDs. I think I returned it and got a second one, then returned that and bought the Nomad instead.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Vince Kargatis

This recommendation strikes me as coming from someone who hasn't lived with an HD-based player. Have you played with a large capacity player? Really, the thought of being restricted in a single play session to 12 albums, after having 30 times that available in a player, seems incredibly restraining. MP3 discs are much closer to single CDs than they are to portable HD players, imo.

I use a TDK Mojo MP3-CD player (they no longer make them). I'm quite happy with it. I have over 500 albums already on MP3 CDs, which I had to do to offload them from my hard drive, and I can also play them through my system in a DVD player. I don't need any more compactness. Close to home I hardly need more than 10 albums at a time, and when I travel I take a wallet wth maybe 6 MP3 CDs. The most important thing with a CD-based unit is skip protection. The TDK mojos have 8 minutes for MP3. I guess there wasn't enough demand for these.

If I didn't already have so much music in MP3 CD format (mostly from Emusic, and other downloads), I probably would go for a HD unit. Right now I don't feel any need to make my regular CD collection portable since I have so much other music on MP3 CDs.

I don't understand why anybody would buy one of those 128 or 256 meg things. The idea of constantly swapping & reloading music seems like such a hassle.

Originally Posted by Ron Thorne

For clarification, neither he nor I are "handing out free iPods."

Flip-flopper!!!!!

[clinthopson]

I love my 40g ipod, I have over 200 jazz cds loaded on it. I don't download music.

I found that itunes created havoc on my 5 year old pc but the Musicmatch software seems to work just fine.

The only times I use it is when we're traveling or when I'm lying on the beach in Mexico. (4 weeks and 4 days from now!)

[shrugs]

I-Pod.
There are cats who'll download soundboard quality bootleg concerts onto Ipods for a minimal fee. Some of the best live stuff I have ever hoid.

[Enforcer]

Ron,

You can hook me up with one of those free iPods, too.

Carrying the joke too far as usual,
Larry

[BFrank]

I dunno. Still having "issues" with the Mini on my PC. My girlfriend just went to the Apple store and talked to one of their "geniuses" (I swear, that's what they call them). He tested it in a Mac (what's the point of that?) and it worked fine. His diagnosis: "it's a Windows problem".

Thanks, "genius"!

[Coda]

BFrank,

Apple is at war with RealNetworks. They keep tweeking the software to force folks to buy music at iTunes by making other web site downloads not compatable with the iPod. You can expect this to continue for several more years. It wouldn't surprise me if they have also blocked out other download services. It may not be your windows machine.

You should be okay if you burn your own CDs, although I understand that Europe is already adding security to their CDs to stop this practice too.

[Sergio Zamora]

Apart from pricing, two recurring iPod issues I keep reading about are:

- It has unreplaceable batteries which start wearing out after a year or so, thus making it basically a disposable item.

- Battery *charge* life is not very impressive (compared to, say, the Creative Labs one). I don't remember the number of hours, but it was about half of other devices.

The latter is not as big of a deal as the former. I'd like to have a device like that be good for at least two years.

[Jim Dye]

iPod. No contest.

I have owned 3 different models, a 10 gig gen 2, a 15 gig gen 3 and a 20 gig gen 3. I have used them on both Macs and PC's. I have not had any problems with either software or battery life.

Wait a week or two. Apple will be announcing a new flash memory based iPod. There may even be a price drop on existing models.

Also, the batteries are replaceable. You can buy a 3rd party battery here starting for only 30 bucks.

[Enforcer]

Sergio,

Seeing as how I just spent significant coin purchasing one of those for my kid, would kindly revise your post in such a way that I am left feeling like I made the right choice. You can include outright lies if necessary, as long as it sounds persuasive and convincing.

Thanks,
Larry

[Jon Abbey]

Sergio, I'm not an expert, I don't have one yet, but I was under the impression that Apple resolved the battery problem within the last year, maybe with the more recent models, not sure.

[Sergio Zamora]

I should have been a little more careful in my research. Apparently, they now have a battery replacement policy (with a fee, of course)

http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com

[Rob C]

Originally Posted by Sergio Zamora

Apart from pricing, two recurring iPod issues I keep reading about are:

- It has unreplaceable batteries which start wearing out after a year or so, thus making it basically a disposable item.

- Battery *charge* life is not very impressive (compared to, say, the Creative Labs one). I don't remember the number of hours, but it was about half of other devices.

The latter is not as big of a deal as the former. I'd like to have a device like that be good for at least two years.

My understanding is that you have to ship your iPod to Apple to have them replace the battery.

The Nomad's battery is removable and replaceable, though how much a new one costs, I have no idea.....

[Rob C]

Oops, took too long to write my response, I guess. Darn work interrupting my posting.....