Reflections on Miles Davis

[Darryl G. Thomas]

As a Christmas present for myself, i bought the new Miles Davis DVD "Electric Miles: A Different Kind of Blues". It's partly a "talking heads" documentary wrapped around Miles' appearance at the Isle of Wight concert back in 1970.

It was mostly a nostolgia trip for me. The big 'Fros and wild clothes sent me back to what I thought were the good old days (I was 14 and immortal). It was a time when I was reaching the stage where music was no longer just background noise and was beginning to really mean something.

I then realized how imortant Miles was to me. It went beyond music. He transcended music for me. More than any other musician: Coltrane, Mingus, Monk, anyone. I can honestly say that other than family and a few friends Miles has had the most profound influence on my life. I guess it was because he was part of a stage of my life when I was discovering so many new things.

Anyway, the concert footage is approximately 40 minutes long. The 'Fro on DeJohnette is truly a thing to see (Jarrett's isn't bad either). Dave Holland is maybe 10-12 years old I'd guess and the music is kicking. It kind of took me to another place. And my cat Thumper dug it. As usual when she's jamming she does our "Monk dance" around the living room.

Some of the talking heads were interesting. (Pete Cosey truly exists?!) Stanley Crouch makes a couple of "playa-hater" appearances (I'd forgotten the line 'Miles is pimping jazz they way he used to pimp women in the '40s). Keith Jarrett affirmed his hatred for electronic keyboards (although he did seem to be getting down hard during the concert).

All in all a wonderful flashback to a time and age when I was young, virile and not so damn jaded.

[Enforcer]

Miles meant a lot to me too, Darryl. He's easily my favorite jazz musician, and his music had a profound effect on me from the very first time I heard him play. I was too young to hear him when he was playing the stuff I really loved from the 50s and 60s, but that's part of the fascination for me. There's a longing to go back to that time and be in the middle of the musical explosion that jazz was a part of then.

[Dr Dave]

Beautifully put, Darryl. I think I'm going to have to get this DVD.

I was 20 at the time of the Isle of Wight thing, and I was completely enthralled with Miles, even moreso than I was with Duane Allman (Man, I wanted to BE Duane Allman, and I have the pictures to prove it. Oooh, how could I manage to be so YOUNG and still be so UGLY?) Trying to be Miles Davis was, of course, completely out of the question, and not just because I'm Caucasian!

You know it's funny, I kept on playing rock music and funk and whatnot, but I lost respect for it after Miles. I knew what he was doing was the Real Deal, and I was just shucking and jiving (to use another expression from The Dear Departed Days).

I miss all that shit. I really do.

Originally Posted by DGT

I then realized how imortant Miles was to me. It went beyond music. He transcended music for me. More than any other musician: Coltrane, Mingus, Monk, anyone. I can honestly say that other than family and a few friends Miles has had the most profound influence on my life. I guess it was because he was part of a stage of my life when I was discovering so many new things.

C'mon Darryl, eloborate a little, brother.

Just based upon things I've read about him over the years, including his excellent "autobiography", Miles seemed like a fairly despicable person. Which is cool with me, of course, seeing that I am a fairly despicable person also.

So I'd like to know how he influenced you. I mean I can definitely get with the fact that he kicked heroin, didn't take no shit from whitey, constantly changed his style to stay fresh, etc....................

[BlueMiles]

Give Miles credit for being honest about himself in his autobiography. It was not the most pleasant read.

Miles, as a musician, is the man.

Were he still alive, would I be anticipating each new release, even knowing there was a good chance it would be disappointing? You bet I would.

[We No Speak]

I consider myself a disciple of Miles. The musical Miles.

He had a lot of admirable qualities and a lot of "less than noble" qualities. Sometimes the lines get blurred between the artform and the personality behind it.

This is quite common for those that look into it. W.C. Fields is one of my comic heroes, even though he was an anti-semite. I like most of Tom Cruise's and John Travolta's movies, even though they are both Scientologists. Bottom line is that Miles was prejudice - and maybe rightfully so, although being a millionare makes it difficult to swallow for some. But that has nothing to do with what he did for the artform and doesn't diminish his artistic genius and the impact he had on the world of music as we know it.

I choose to ignore his personality quirks in light of what I see in him, as the one person in all of modern music, that could claim to be "The Leader"

Who else can make this claim? He's been dead now since 1991 and no one has taken his place as the undisputed and most influential leader of the musical world. The way I see it, we need a new Miles Davis. A musical genius that commands the respect of fans and peers alike with a handle on "what's going on" and the nerve to say, "let's do it this way instead".

In many ways Miles played what I call "Hard Pop", he played popular music, but in a way that gave it integrity and sometimes pushed boundaries that made it uncomfortable for many to listen to.

All in all, I could sing his praise all day long, admit to his shortcomings, and still come away with the fact that he was "THE LEADER" and we haven't had once since. End.

Rick
Keyboards/Drums
www.wenospeak.com

[JazzCat]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

Dave Holland is maybe 10-12 years old I'd guess

??? I'd say at least 18, probably older. After looking at the Complete Bitches Brew liner notes and adding 1, I can give you the exact age. But I'm sure one of this board's own knowledgable members can post it before then.

[Richardo Caerleoni]

Originally Posted by JazzCat

??? I'd say at least 18, probably older. After looking at the Complete Bitches Brew liner notes and adding 1, I can give you the exact age. But I'm sure one of this board's own knowledgable members can post it before then.

"By 1967 Dave was appearing frequently at Ronnie Scott's with such jazz greats as Coleman Hawkins, Ben Webster and Joe Henderson. It was during an engagement there in July of 1968 that Miles Davis visited the club, heard Dave playing, and asked him to join his band. Dave moved to New York a few weeks later and for the next two years toured and appeared on a number of recordings with Miles including In A Silent Way and Bitches Brew. When not on the road with Miles, he worked with many others in the New York music community." [from Dave's Website on JC]

Dave was born in October 1946...Exactly the same age, "star sign" etc. as me...Damn! He got all the talent that year!

And just gets better...

RC.

[Steve Reynolds]

why do we need a new Miles?

first off, there will never be another anything like him

we are all unique individuals, but somehow, he takes the cake

as Gary says, he truly was The Chief

[Gary Sisco]

I'm totally with Darryl and StevieRey. If there could be another Miles, our man wouldn't have been Miles to begin with. There was only one Miles Davis, and, for me as for Darryl, he transcended the status of merely being my favorite musician. He was music itself, to me. I consider him to have been the musician of the 20th Century. Not the jazz musician. Musician, period.

And I loved his book. I don't think I've ever laughed out loud that many times reading anything else.

People use the word unique so much it doesn't mean anything, really, anymore, but there was only one Miles and we are all blessed for it.

I don't believe in any gods but if I did, Miles's music is how I'd imagine the sound of god's voice.

The Chief of chiefs.

[Richardo Caerleoni]

MILES SMILES...

“I still got my Ferrari.”

“A legend is an old man with a cane known for what he used to do. I’m stil doing it.”

“When you’re creating your own shit, man, even the sky ain’t the limit.”

“If they act too hip, you know they can’t play shit.”

“Those songs to me don’t exist, you know? “So What” or Kind of Blue, I’m not going to play that shit, those things are there. They were done in that era, the right hour, the right day, and it happened. It’s over; it’s on the record.”

“Keith [Jarrett] played so nice I had to give him two pianos. I’d say “Keith, how does it feel to be a genius?””

“In Europe, they like everything you do. The mistakes and everything. That’s a little bit too much.”

“I never thought that the music called “jazz” was ever meant to reach just a small group of people, or become a museum thing locked under glass like all the other dead things that were once considered artistic.”

“I really liked Wynton [Marsalis] when I first met him. He’s still a nice young man, only confused.” [Neat ! RC]

“If you got up on the bandstand at Minton’s and couldn’t play, you were not only going to be embarrassed by the people ignoring you or booing you, you might get your ass kicked.”

“Nothing is out of the question for me. I’m always thinking about creating. My future starts when I wake up in the morning and see the light…Then I’m grateful.”

“Don’t play what’s there, play what’s not there.”

“You know why I quit playing ballads? Cause I love playing ballads. ”

“Coltrane, you cant play everything at once!”

“Do not fear mistakes. There are none.”

“Always look ahead, but never look back.”

RC.

[We No Speak]

My faux pax, I stand corrected. Thank you gentlemen.

We don't need a new Miles Davis, otherwise we wouldn't worship the real Miles Davis. I absolutely agree. I worded it badly and didn't articulate my point.

I would like to have a new leader that has "similar qualities" enough so that he/she can turn today's music in a better direction, or new direction. I think things seemed to have gotten slightly stale since Miles left. For traditionalists (as most are at Jazz Corner), things may not seem stale. But, as a Jazz Rock guy, things have gone every which way since Miles left and many of them could use some direction.

I'm certainly not picking on traditional Jazz as I still enjoy my Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, Pat Martino, John Coltrane, and I couln't live without my 12 albums by The Great Jazz Trio with Hank Jones, Ron Carter, and Tony Williams (at least I think it's 12).

Anyway, I meant a new Miles in the Jazz Rock vein. I should have known better than to leave that hanging out there unexplained in a Jazz Corner post.


I also think the quintet with Hancock, Shorter, Carter, and Williams is still some of the best (and my favorite) music ever played. That band could play ANYTHING they could think of, and, each one is a dominant musical force for all other musicians playing the same instrument.

Respectfully,

Rick
www.wenospeak.com

[BlueMiles]

I'm intrigued by the notion of a "leader." A couple of months ago I created a thread on the most "influential" jazz musisican. My thought (and I think quite a few agreed) was that the two most influential over the past 4 decades right up to today are Miles and Coltrane. A true jazz leader must be innovative, a great player, hugely admired by his peers, influential, magnetic, and also be visible over a long span of time to the general public. When Miles passed away, we no longer had a living leader.

I think there have been very few true leaders in jazz history. The list might only include these: Louis, Duke, Hawk, Bird, Miles, and Trane.

Is jazz too invisible and too fragmented to ever get another leader of this stature?

[We No Speak]

Originally Posted by BlueMiles

I'm intrigued by the notion of a "leader." A couple of months ago I created a thread on the most "influential" jazz musisican. My thought (and I think quite a few agreed) was that the two most influential over the past 4 decades right up to today are Miles and Coltrane. A true jazz leader must be innovative, a great player, hugely admired by his peers, influential, magnetic, and also be visible over a long span of time to the general public. When Miles passed away, we no longer had a living leader.

I think there have been very few true leaders in jazz history. The list might only include these: Louis, Duke, Hawk, Bird, Miles, and Trane.

Is jazz too invisible and too fragmented to ever get another leader of this stature?

Those certainly ARE the qualities of a good leader. I guess we should just be thankful we had a couple of living legends/leaders in our lifetime. Maybe I just miss Miles - it could be as simple as that. As far as being visible over a long period of time, that has a lot of merit to it. Pop leaders come and go, Classical leaders never die, and Rock leaders don't have the qualities to spill over into Jazz.

I really thought that Joe Zawinul would have been the next leader for all of the above reasons, however, he decided to narrow his sights to the World Beat (which he invented, as well as Jazz Rock) which took him out of the running because he limited his audience and alienated many of his peers (maybe not alienated, but it was clear that Zawinul was "doing his own thing"). Then I thought it could be John McLaughlin because of his incredible performing skills, the variety of styles he's covered, and his deep understanding of musical history and theory, but he just had too many duds in his portfolio. For all the amazing things he's accomplished, he's had far too many miles of bad road. At one point Miles said about Herbie Hancock "He's the only one out there", but that of course was prior to "Feets Don't Fail Me Now" (ecch...).

You'll notice that the people I look to for leadership all came through the Miles Davis school of music. I suppose continuing to expect a new leader from the coat tails of the last, is probably like hoping a disciple of Jesus would become Jesus (no offense, just a strong illustration).

I guess we just have to keep playing and listening with our eyes and ears wide open to new ideas. Blaze a trail into the future, but give resepct to the past - we don't live in a vacuum, we're all influenced by someone that was influenced by someone, etc.

Keep an open mind and open heart and good things will happen.

Rick
www.wenospeak.com

[Gary Sisco]

Ellery Eskelin.

Ten, baby.

[Gary Sisco]

William Parker

[Steve Reynolds]

right on, Gary

add

Peter Brotzmann, Ken Vandermark, Paul Dunmall, Evan Parker, Roscoe Mitchell, Dennis Gonzalez, Gerry Hemingway, Gianluigi Trovesi, Edward Wilkinson, Fred Anderson, Hamid Drake, Mats Gustafsson

major forces in this bifurcated world of improvised music

major forces, all

[Gary Sisco]

Ben Allison's been a bandleader for as long as most have in jazz history, as has Ellery.

Kidd Jordan also.

[Darryl G. Thomas]

jazzcat,

It was a joke. As I've said in other places, I've got start using those smiley face thingies.

What I meant was that Holland had an amazing baby-face.

Scott,

To answer your question, I certainly didn't use Miles as a role model when dealing with women. As a matter of fact, I didn't learn of the part of his personality well into the '80s, probably through Chamber's biography.

Art-wise, listening to Miles opened my head and eyes beyond the ordinary. When you're young, it's easy to just listen to the music your friends dig, which back then was top-40 radio. That music's cool, but for it to be commercialy successful, it can only go so far beyond certain limits. I feel that digging Miles was the beginning of my love for abstract concepts in art, music, literature, movies, etc. All the stuff I groove to today, I lay at Miles's feet.

Funny as this sounds, Miles is pretty cool when it comes to race-relations. Yeah, he's said some shit that would piss white cats off. But look at his bands. Look at his collaboration with Gil Evans. Philly's a hell of a segregated town. I didn't deal with white people on a day-to-day basis until I went to a predominately white high school. Miles, through his music associations, showed that you could get beyond race when something is really important to you. In his case, he wanted kick-ass bands that put out kick-ass music.

So am I going to choose the cats I dig, hang-out with, share life experiences with solely on the basis of race?

All through the '70s when I was going from teen to man I'm listening to Miles, influenced by his vibe.

End the end, I look around at the books I read, the music I listen to, the few friends I do have, my attitude towards politics, race, etc., and I think about a conversation I had with some chubby little white kid in music class back in high school and he's telling me I've got to check out "Bitches Brew". If I could remember the cat's name I'd call him up out of the blue just to thank him.

[Chris D]

I was a sophomore in college who was consumed by the new rock of the day. Clash, Talking Heads, XTC, Wire, each day seemed to bring a new epiphany in shrink wrap.
I had "graduated" from a tony high school and had partaken of Weather Report, Return to Forever and such like. I very minimally linked it to Miles. I owned "Kind of Blue" and had "Bitches Brew" on my "educational" to-buy list.

I was working at a used record store, and we would regularly spin records. One day, this fried cat brought in a bunch of Miles to sell. I took it off his hands and immediately plopped an LP called "Directions" on the turntable. There was this etheral sound, with big chimes and a rhyhm, yes, but it was movement like that of a waterfall, churning yet still. What was THAT? "Water on the Pond," the liner said. Electric Miles, especially in that "In a Silent Way"-style mode, became my passion. It was like my mind was instantly opened, never to return to its prior shape again.

Thanks, Miles.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Darryl G. Thomas

some chubby little white kid in music class back in high school

Darryl, one thing about being a chubby kid in high school is that when you get to be our age many of the kids who were skinny then are fatter than us now.

Darryl, excellent post, brother!!


I dig what you're saying 100%.

[Sandi22]

I knew Miles and to me other than in the first week of being around him, he was always a class act. He wasn't Mr Congeniality, he wasn't a talkative friendly guy, but he could be terrific, not always the hard to deal with personality we hear so much about. At times he could be a good friend.

I got to see him play with his different groups, and for quite a while I got to see them play on a daily basis, and they never disappointed. It was thrilling to sit in on their practices and then the actual performances. The fun thing was, the music played to an empty room, or to their buddies who popped in to see and talk to them - their fellow musicians; their playing just for and to themselves was astounding. I've never heard better, not even when the crowds would fill the room, it was a different feeling, a different experience. More personal I believe. John Coltrane would play for hours, all by himself, Miles rolling his eyes asking if he was ever going to quit, listening for a bit, then walking off into the kitchen to have his breakfast. Can you imagine live John Coltrane musings for breakfast? Sometimes the piano player or drummer would join him, but whether someone chose to join in and play with him or he just played alone, hearing him like that was a wonderful treat.

Miles alone was another great thing to hear as well as his choices always hit home with me, and his I Loves You Porgy and Summer Time were just gorgeous. Never played the same, but with more true emotion coming out when all alone on the stage, in an empty room.

There's so much talk about Miles, and how he would turn his back on an audience. He would do this routine of his with no one in the room, and even when on stage by himself, it was some sort of habit, not a slam to the patrons that I could see but then if it were expected, he was sure to oblige, as Miles worked on his image every bit as much as any personal manager could have. Believe me, if Miles wanted to give you the cold shoulder, or be derisive towards anyone, to make you feel his disdain or wrath, it didn't take him turning his back, you knew it, and it would get so bad that oftentimes the person who he was directing his derision towards would just get up and leave the buidling rather than suffer the looks he shot and kept on them

I liked Miles, as he was always very nice to me. First few days aside that is.

[Gary Sisco]

For myself, Miles was the musician of the 20th Century. Nuff said.

[clinthopson]

Yesterday's NY times had an article about the possible flick about Miles. Don Cheadle was mentioned as the possible lead.

Can they make a believable film about this enigmatic man?

Who would you pick to play Dewey?

[Sandi22]

Originally Posted by clinthopson

Yesterday's NY times had an article about the possible flick about MIles. Don Cheadle was mentioned as the possible lead.

Can they make a believable film about this enigmatic man?

Who would you pick to play Dewey?

I've said this before, the fellow who has looks the closest to him, who moves about much the same, the body language and all, is the fellow who's on CSI New York; Hill Harper. He even comes from a similar background. I remember him in the Handler in which, he played an undercover investigator, changing who he would act like each week, and I believe he might come closest in playing a convincing Miles. I saw him one time when he was walking a fellow through a new restaurant he was opening and his own persona came close to how Miles could be, and with his acting skills, I believe he could do it up right. We've heard that it could be Snoop Dog playing him, that would be a big stretch, and then it's been talked around that Don Cheadle might play Miles. I know Don has the acting skills and people say that Snoop does as well, but I can just picture this other fellow in the part, he already has so much about him that reminds me of Miles, looks, body language, so many similar looks and actions; it just all fits with him. When not in front of a camera, Miles didn't begin to look, or act so intense, but when he became aware of one, his whole persona changed.

[Gentle Giant]

The first two Miles albums I ever heard, I heard on the same day: Live at Carnegie Hall 1961 and In a Silent Way. I was in the act of promoting a concert of his at UMass (what ended up being the We Want Miles tour). My next two purchases were Kind of Blue and Agharta. It blew my mind how one guy could kick ass in so many different musical contexts. Still does. The curiosity, the ambition, the ear for talent, just unmatched IMO. And no matter what decade, when he put his horn to his lips, you just knew it was Miles.

[Xavier]

The older I get the more I appreciate Miles Davis and Red Garland. I'm not althogher sure why, but it's true. I think I've stopped caring that Miles had his problems and could be a real bastard, and at some point I started to listen to Garland for who he is rather than as Miles or Coltrane's sideman. Getting older does have its advantages. I think you gradually appreciate more and more.

[edpack]

I think the main thing about Miles is that he seemed to KNOW music, inside and out. His timing, phrasing, choice of notes, and dynamics were always surprising, fresh and totally unique. The world's greatest improvisor, IMHO.

[Sandi22]

Originally Posted by edpack

I think the main thing about Miles is that he seemed to KNOW music, inside and out. His timing, phrasing, choice of notes, and dynamics were always surprising, fresh and totally unique. The world's greatest improvisor, IMHO.

That and his choices.

His way of putting a band together is a gift to all of us, and what he chose to play and how, well, we never tire of him, nor his side men for that matter. All golden as far as talent and soul goes. It was a sheer pleasure to hear what they offered on any given day. Being up close and personal was not to be believed.