Jack Johnson soundtracks: Miles vs. Wynton

[Gentle Giant]

Haven't heard Wynton's soundtrack to the Ken Burns documentary Unforgivable Blackness: The Life of Jack Johnson, but I'm wondering how it compares to Miles' Tribute to Jack Johnson. Not just in the sheer swing or musicality, but also the approach. Miles' was bouncy and aggressive, just like a boxer. While Burns is not a well-respected man around these parts, I'm looking forward to the film.

[jazzy mary]

Gee, I wonder how it will compare... Can't wait to see the film, anyway.

[Rob C]

I listened to a few minutes of the new one at Tower. *Yawn.*

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by Rob C

I listened to a few minutes of the new one at Tower. *Yawn.*

Is it "old-timey"?

Edit: Apparently.

Trumpeter Wynton Marsalis' soundtrack to Ken Burns' documentary Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson is a compelling and rootsy mix of blues and swing. Having worked with Burns on the PBS Jazz series, Marsalis' Unforgivable Blackness soundtrack seems like a natural progression of a fruitful partnership. Not dissimilar to such past Marsalis projects as the Jelly Roll Morton album Mr. Jelly Lord, the album features Marsalis in various small-group settings along with such longtime Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra regulars as drummer Herlin Riley, pianist Eric Lewis, saxophonist Wessell Anderson, bassist Reginald Veal, trombonist Wycliffe Gordon, and others, including guitarist Doug Wamble, who adds his unique blend of old-time blues, folk, and jazz to Marsalis' own signature updating of '20s and '30s jazz. Although four previously released tracks appear here, two off Standard Time, Vol. 6: Mr. Jelly Lord and two from Marsalis' Reeltime, the majority of the album is newly recorded and all of it sounds of a piece. Ironically, Marsalis' deepest musical influence and aesthetic nemesis, trumpeter Miles Davis, also recorded an album for a film about the troubled boxing champ Johnson, 1970's minor fusion classic Tribute to Jack Johnson. However, where Davis' album seemed to reflect the counterculture and Black Power movements of the time, Marsalis is more traditionally cinematic in his approach, with each track evoking the pride, urbanity, strength, and tragedy of the legendary Johnson. ~ Matt Collar, All Music Guide

[Rob C]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Is it "old-timey"?

Very.

[Pete C]

Imagine what Threadgill could have done.

[walto]

Where's Rob Damen, anyway?

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by walto

Where's Rob Damen, anyway?

He'll be back.

[Sergio Zamora]

Can't say I'm particularly interested in hearing this.

[stonemonkts]

[JazzCat]

Hmmmmm.... I wonder who will take it.....

[GoodSpeak]

Oh.

Hold me back.


Yet another chance to bash Wynton Marsalis.


*YAWN*




...next.

[xquisit]

I received an invitation to a screening of the film at the Lincoln Theatre, Washington, DC, Friday, January 14th at 7:00 pm. The invitation didn't mention anything about the music period.

Who else is involved in this project?

x

[Nick]

The samples I've heard sound pretty dull but the soundtrack may work really well with the film.

Originally Posted by Nick

The samples I've heard sound pretty dull but the soundtrack may work really well with the film.

Exactly, Nick.

And I'd be willing to bet that the soundtrack will do just that.

[Gentle Giant]

Originally Posted by GoodSpeak

Oh.

Hold me back.


Yet another chance to bash Wynton Marsalis.


*YAWN*




...next.

While it's pretty obvious that Wynton is not a consensus choice in these parts, I didn't intend this thread to be a place for Wynton-bashing. Rather, it's an interesting way to compare Marsalis and Miles by examining their approaches to the same subject matter. Interestingly, both releases include previously released material (Miles' Jack Johnson, of course, includes excerpts from In a Silent Way). Contrasts are obvious, beginning with the fact that Miles was in his early electric period. Maybe if he'd done his project in 1956, it would be easier to offer a fair critique. One thing's for sure, the film for which Marsalis did his soundtrack will be seen by many more people than the film Miles did his for.

But I still love to hear Brock Peters at the end: "I'm Jack Johnson, heavyweight champion of the world. I'm black. They never let me forget it. I'm black, all right. I'll never let them forget it!"

[mtaylorjazz]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Imagine what Threadgill could have done.

WOW! How cool would that have been? I'd love to hear a Threadgill filmscore.


M
http://www.mark-taylor.biz
http://www.cdbaby.com/marktaylor

[John L]

From the Crouch liner notes:

"The sellout of Miles Davis had many unfortunate consequences for American culture, including a cheap pop rock desecration of the memory of Jack Johnson. From the depths of this devastation, only a single living jazz titan possesses the power to restore musical dignity and nobility to the memory of the great pugalist..."

[Pete C]

Mark, I have recordings of a performance Threadgill did ca. '84 with a group called the "Windstring Ensemble" at the Alternative Museum. The pieces are "soundtracks" for imaginary radio plays. The person who posted the music on usenet also included the program notes, which include plot summaries of the imaginary plays. Jean-Paul Bourelly is guest on one of the scores.

My suggestion above was in all seriousness. Threadgill could definitely conjure up a vintage mood while remaining totally modern and compelling.

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by John L

only a single living jazz titan possesses the power to restore musical dignity and nobility to the memory of the great pugalist..."

Is Crouch really either that stupid or that deluded?

Which one of you misspelled pugilist?

[Rob C]

Originally Posted by John L

From the Crouch liner notes:

"The sellout of Miles Davis had many unfortunate consequences for American culture, including a cheap pop rock desecration of the memory of Jack Johnson. From the depths of this devastation, only a single living jazz titan possesses the power to restore musical dignity and nobility to the memory of the great pugalist..."

That's a joke, right? Right?

[stonemonkts]

I think John L made that shit up. It's so bad it's good.

"jazz titan"

[Ennis Snavely]

Originally Posted by John L

"...only a single living jazz titan possesses the power to restore musical dignity and nobility to the memory of the great pugalist..."

The MF couldn't have really written that. Are you pulling our leg, John?

And that titan is...?

[hornplayer]

Originally Posted by jazzy mary

Gee, I wonder how it will compare... Can't wait to see the film, anyway.

you beat me to it, Mary... That's just what I was thinking....

[Ennis Snavely]

From:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/11/ar...rint&position=

"The film also includes warmly lighted interviews with recognizable bassos profundo, including James Earl Jones and George Plimpton, who filmed his part before he died in September.

But it is the writer Stanley Crouch who steals the show. His bemused account of Jack Johnson's reply when asked why white women like black men - "We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts" - is the most engaging moment in the movie."

Maumaued again...Stanley is SO cool.

[mtaylorjazz]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Mark, I have recordings of a performance Threadgill did ca. '84 with a group called the "Windstring Ensemble" at the Alternative Museum. The pieces are "soundtracks" for imaginary radio plays. The person who posted the music on usenet also included the program notes, which include plot summaries of the imaginary plays. Jean-Paul Bourelly is guest on one of the scores.

My suggestion above was in all seriousness. Threadgill could definitely conjure up a vintage mood while remaining totally modern and compelling.

I took it seriously. I really would love to see/hear a Threadgill-scored film. I agree that he could do some period or another and still sound like no one but Threadgill. That's one reason I love his music. Maybe you could PM me with the newsgroup where you found those files? Not that they'll still be up, retention being what it is.

He and I had discussed theatre music before, but that was mostly about finding projects to do, not music.

M

http://www.mark-taylor.biz
http://www.cdbaby.com/marktaylor

[Pete C]

Originally Posted by mtaylorjazz

Maybe you could PM me with the newsgroup where you found those files? Not that they'll still be up, retention being what it is.

Mark, PM me your address and I'll burn you a copy of the MP3s & program notes. I think it's close to 2 hours of music, 2 pieces. It was about two years ago that I found it, probably at alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.jazz. I use a subscription service called easynews.com to get usenet content--a very friendly web interface, zip queues, generous download allowance, and they keep stuff up for 30-40 days.

I find usenet a good source for mp3 rips of oop vinyl too.

[Pete C]

From the same Times article (Stanley is still using the "N" word):

I asked Mr. Burns whether he paid Mr. Crouch or any of the other interview subjects for their contributions to "Unforgivable Blackness."

"No, and it bothers Stanley a great deal," Mr. Burns said. "I don't want to pay for something that might have an artistic effect."

He explained that he wanted to juxtapose sound bites and images artfully, a liberty he imagined would be curbed if the bites were not found objects but paid performances. (Interview subjects don't rehearse, and Mr. Burns does not give them questions in advance or feed them quotations, though these practices are common in television documentaries.)

Mr. Burns also cited the journalistic rule against paying for stories, adding that his talking heads were free to contribute apocrypha about a historical subject, since they were not on his payroll. "Unforgivable Blackness," in other words, is held to a high standard of accuracy, except for the interviews, which occasionally include stories that cannot be corroborated, including Mr. Crouch's reference to eels and distant thoughts.

(In a telephone interview, Mr. Crouch said he didn't remember the origins of the eel story. "I heard it many years ago," he said. He added that he thought he ought to be paid for his appearances in Mr. Burns's films, but that he participated in them out of respect for the filmmaker and a sense of moral obligation. "From my perspective, the humanity of the Negro is so infrequently achieved that you can say, on principle, I'm not going to appear in this,'' he said. "But if you don't appear, you always run the risk of paternalistic lunkheads and ethnic paranoids distorting the whole subject.")

[Chris D]

I love how an album that had two sidelong tracks and moved diddley units is branded a sellout.

[John L]

Originally Posted by Pete C

Is Crouch really either that stupid or that deluded?

Which one of you misspelled pugilist?

He was the one that came up with pugalist (sic). I only did the rest.