Can Someone Help Me Out with Jack Johnson?

jazzy mary · January-20th-2005, 11:18 AM

Because of a dinner I had to go to at my work, I missed the second part of Jack Johnson on Tuesday night! I programmed my vcr and all that, but it didn't take!! Damn!

Does anyone have a copy of the second part? I'm really eager to see it. i'd pay for the postage to send it to me and then I'd send it right back after I watched it!

BTW, why no thread on this program yet? Did you all like it?? What about the music? To me, all the music in these Ken Burns' films sounds alike. I felt this music was way too loud and overpowering. Often I had a hard time hearing the narration because the music was so intrusive. I loved Stanley Crouch--I don't care what you all say, I find him entertaining and smart!

January-20th-2005, 11:20 AM

I'm hoping, and pretty sure, that they will rebroadcast it soon. I saw the majority of the first part, but almost none of the second.

From what I saw it was an awesome program.

you should check your local affiliates schedule online JM.

jazzy mary · January-20th-2005, 11:25 AM

I looked and looked in the TV guide to seee if and when they would re-broadcast (sometimes, they do things like rebroadcast at 3:00 a.m. on a Thursday) but I didn't see it at all.I will check the website--good idea!

Pete C · January-20th-2005, 11:26 AM

I actually thought it would be on next Monday, so I didn't see it. Mary, Part 2 will be rerun on Channel 13 this Saturday at 5PM, and on channel 21 on Monday at 9PM.

I saw most of part 1. Actually, the music seemed fine in context. I thought the film was pretty good, except that Burns relies on the same talking heads too often, especially Crouch, who has no real authority as far as I know to discuss that period, or boxing. Gerald Early is an OK choice, but Burns seems to shy away from bringing in other serious scholars.

Uli · January-20th-2005, 11:27 AM

JM, watched both nites but did not tape it.

Agree that Stanley had some good stuff to say.

The music did not bother me at all. I did not pay particular attention to it. The one thing that cought my attetnion most was that blues guitar. I was not always all that sure if that was original Winnie or just some old tape.

Pete C · January-20th-2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uli

The one thing that cought my attetnion most was that blues guitar. I was not always all that sure if that was original Winnie or just some old tape.

Doug Wamble, with Marsalis.

Uli · January-20th-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Doug Wamble, with Marsalis.

Thanks. Did he post here one time?

jazzy mary · January-20th-2005, 11:33 AM

Thanks, Pete. I just saw that on the PBS web site! Thanks, guys! I think I'll be able to catch it then. Brandford Marsalis is crazy about Doug Wamble and Wamble records for Brandford's label. I went to see him last year at Birdland to see what all the fuss was about. I still don't know what the fuss is all about.

Pete C · January-20th-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uli

Thanks. Did he post here one time?

I believe so.

Other Steve · January-20th-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Doug Wamble, with Marsalis.

Most of it was Wamble, yes. But there were some old period recordings in there, as well: Lara and I definitely picked out Blind Willie Johnson's "God Moves on the Water."

JM, I'm not completely down with Doug's own music so far, but he's terrific in this, as well as on record with Cassandra Wilson and on stage with Steven Bernstein. Definitely a player. Old RMBers will remember him to be an ornery cuss, as well, but always an entertaining one.

Incidentally, there's a complete list of the music used in the show here. The Wynton cues came from a lot more places than just the new Unforgivable Blackness CD.

Like Pete, I didn't honestly think Crouch had much to say, but I loved his anecdote about his "criminal" father meeting Jack Johnson at the gym. My favorite of the talking heads was James Earl Jones, by a wide margin; I loved the scenes of him in The Great White Hope and with Muhammad Ali.

jazzy mary · January-20th-2005, 12:20 PM

Thanks for the link, other steve. I'm not saying I didn't like the music, I just thought the volume of it was too high. I liked that old boxing guy too, the one with the hat and the cigar which was never lit. In the credits Other Steve linked, at the end, it says the film is dedicated to George plimpton.

Gentle Giant · January-20th-2005, 12:22 PM

That's one good thing about PBS; most programs are shown a few times within the month they premiere, then usually shown again a few months later.

For any Burns project, you can be sure PBS will repeat it regularly for many years to come.

Uli · January-20th-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Other Steve

JM, I'm not completely down with Doug's own music so far, but he's terrific in this, as well as on record with Cassandra Wilson and on stage with Steven Bernstein. Definitely a player. Old RMBers will remember him to be an ornery cuss, as well, but always an entertaining one.

Yeah, that's probably where I remeber him from. He would be a welcome addition to the Marsalis' threads which are getting a bit boring recently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Other Steve

Like Pete, I didn't honestly think Crouch had much to say, but I loved his anecdote about his "criminal" father meeting Jack Johnson at the gym. My favorite of the talking heads was James Earl Jones, by a wide margin; I loved the scenes of him in The Great White Hope and with Muhammad Ali.

I also liked the cold eel analogy and towards the end when he kinda summarized that depsite all the problems America has there alwys seems to be a crack open for somebody like Jack Johnson.

Jaames Earl Jones was fantastic.

Other Steve · January-20th-2005, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy mary

In the credits Other Steve linked, at the end, it says the film is dedicated to George plimpton.

The funny thing -- and I really can't believe I'm about to cop to this -- is that it was the second Plimpton citing of the evening for me. Earlier, on The Gilmore Girls, someone was goading Rory into getting involved in a hare-brained stunt she was trying to cover as a reporter, by running down a litany of great journalists who had gotten deeply involved with the subject matter they were covering. One of the examples was George Plimpton tying on the gloves and getting into the boxing ring. (Another, naturally, was Hunter S. Thompson running with the Hell's Angels.) That was the first thing that leapt to my mind when I saw dear old rheumy-eyed Plimpton on screen in the Jack Johnson flick, and again when I saw the dedication credit at the end.

(Of course, I only watch The Gilmore Girls for all those terrific Sam Phillips music cues...)

Pete C · January-20th-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy mary

I liked that old boxing guy too, the one with the hat and the cigar which was never lit.

Bert Sugar is THE boxing historian.

Pete C · January-20th-2005, 01:20 PM

The absolute best book on boxing is

Pete C · January-20th-2005, 01:27 PM

"In a telephone interview, Mr. Crouch said he didn't remember the origins of the eel story. "I heard it many years ago," he said."

NY Times.

Burns always maintains that he's a filmmaker, not an historian, so whether or not this "good line" is historically accurate doesn't really matter to him. I doubt he had anybody fact check the anecdote.

jazzy mary · January-20th-2005, 02:04 PM

It sounded like it could have been made up or not exactly what Jack said. Man, it sounds like he had a way with the ladies, though. And more than one too!

Enforcer · January-20th-2005, 02:16 PM

Dr Dave · January-20th-2005, 03:21 PM

Crouch knows all about punching, anyway.

ribot_for_president · January-20th-2005, 03:31 PM

Burns always maintains that he's a filmmaker, not an historian, so whether or not this "good line" is historically accurate doesn't really matter to him. I doubt he had anybody fact check the anecdote.

Which may explain why the story about Johnson giving the cop a $100 bill for a $50 speeding ticket and telling him to keep the change because "I'm taking the same way home" has also been attributed to Satchel Page and Cool Papa Bell over the years. Even Burt Sugar acknowledged on WFAN yesterday that he's heard the quote attributed to a bunch of different people and that Burns took a good deal, but not too much, poetic license throughout the film.

I'd guess Burns' lack of attention to historical detail would explain most of the blatant errors in his baseball film, as well.

Il Anto · January-20th-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribot_for_president

Burns always maintains that he's a filmmaker, not an historian, so whether or not this "good line" is historically accurate doesn't really matter to him. I doubt he had anybody fact check the anecdote.

Which may explain why the story about Johnson giving the cop a $100 bill for a $50 speeding ticket and telling him to keep the change because "I'm taking the same way home" has also been attributed to Satchel Page and Cool Papa Bell over the years. Even Burt Sugar acknowledged on WFAN yesterday that he's heard the quote attributed to a bunch of different people and that Burns took a good deal, but not too much, poetic license throughout the film.

I'd guess Burns' lack of attention to historical detail would explain most of the blatant errors in his baseball film, as well.

This is way off topic, but boy O boy, you've got the coolest moniker I've ever seen on any message board.

jesus marion joseph · January-20th-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete C

Bert Sugar is THE boxing historian.

Pete beat me to the punch (groan).

I think he writes for Ring magazine.

Root Doctor · January-20th-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesus marion joseph

I think he writes for Ring magazine.

Is Sugar back at Ring? He'd left that mag for Boxing Illustrated, which I think is now defunct.

ribot_for_president · January-21st-2005, 10:23 AM

This is way off topic, but boy O boy, you've got the coolest moniker I've ever seen on any message board.

Thanks! He's the man, in my book.

FYI for anyone who cares, Channel 13 in NYC is also showing The Great White Hope on Saturday night after the repeat of the Burns thing.

Gary Sisco · January-21st-2005, 10:42 AM

Can someone tell me why even the newly remastered version of Jack Johnson (the CD) still doesn't list Sharrock in the credits, although it does in the liner notes? What is there about this tradition of apparently intentionally reproducing incorrect notes and information?

jazzy mary · January-21st-2005, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribot_for_president

This is way off topic, but boy O boy, you've got the coolest moniker I've ever seen on any message board.

Thanks! He's the man, in my book.

FYI for anyone who cares, Channel 13 in NYC is also showing The Great White Hope on Saturday night after the repeat of the Burns thing.

Yes, I noticed that when I went to the PBS website. I'm certainly interested! I've actually never seen that film!! If I can't watch it then, I'm vcring it--I hope correctly!

Valerie · January-21st-2005, 02:26 PM

JM: Did I ever tell you that I was fortunate enough to have seen James Earl Jones on Broadway in The Great White Hope?!? It is one of the most exciting Broadway memories I have - and I have many wonderful ones. I think it was Jane Alexander who played opposite him.

xoxo

jazzy mary · January-21st-2005, 06:00 PM

Cool, Jane is in the film too.

patricia · January-21st-2005, 08:43 PM

"The Great White Hope" was the film that hipped me to James Earl Jones, as it did millions of people who saw it. Perfectly cast, I thought, with Jane Alexander in the second lead.
I must admit that it was Jones' magnificent voice and powerful presence that prompted me to read about Jack Johnson, who was just as interesting in his time, but for different reasons.
I would not call myself a fight fan, having had a brief interest only when Ali was fighting for his title and also was vocal about avoiding the draft during the Vietnam years. THAT was when I respected him tremendously.